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Re: HTML-A11Y Task Force Consensus on Issue-204 (Updated)

From: Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 20:00:29 -0400
To: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
Cc: "Edward O'Connor" <eoconnor@apple.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Frank Olivier <Frank.Olivier@microsoft.com>, W3C WAI Protocols & Formats <w3c-wai-pf@w3.org>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>
Message-ID: <20120601000029.GC4506@sonata.rednote.net>
Hello, Jonas:

Jonas Sicking writes:
> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote:
> > The WAI Protocols and Formats Working Group strongly objects to any RFC
> > 2119 normative requirements on WAI-ARIA markup in HTML Working Group
> > specifications. Normative WAI-ARIA requirements are the chartered
> > responsibility of PF-WG and are out of scope for HTML-WG.  In other
> > words, "might" or "may" statements are acceptable, but "should" and
> > "must" statements are not.
> This seems inconsistent with the HTML a11y Task Force which previously
> promoted change proposals which had MUST requirements stating that
> only the flattened accessibility tree should be exposed.

It is correct that a previous version of the TF backed I-204 CP
contained normative requirements on user agents. The H5 Chairs pointed
out a strong objection to those requirements during our discussion of
the TF  CP at the H5 Face to Face, and we apologetically withdrew that
language then and there. We should not have spec'd that, and are now
simply looking for that same consistent approach in competing CPs. 

> > Please note that PF-WG is not now objecting to, nor expressing a
> > judgement of the technical merit of the proposed language.  Rather, it
> > simply avers that the appropriate PF-WG locus of normative WAI-ARIA
> > requirements on user agents is its forthcoming publication, "WAI-ARIA
> > User Agent Implementation Guide (UAIG)."
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/
> >
> > Comments on the UAIG are welcome. Indeed, a (second) Last Call
> > announcement for the UAIG is expected in a few weeks.
> >
> > Moreover, while the UAIG is a PF-WG publication, it is a named
> > deliverable of the joint PF-WG and HTML-WG  WAI-ARIA User Agent
> > Implementation Task Force
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-ua-task-force
> >
> > HTML-WG members are now, and have always been, most welcome to work with
> > PF-WG members on perfecting this document.
> Does this mean that the UAIG is going to have normative statements
> regarding how the HTML5 @hidden attribute interacts with
> aria-describedby? The interaction needs to be defined somewhere.

The UAI-TF is tasked both for the ARIA Implementation Guide (which needs
to be normative from PF's perspective) as well as for an HTML
Implementation Guide concerning the mapping of HTML to a11y APIs. In
addition we are looking for edits to Sec. 7.1 of the HTML specification
because the language currently there is simply wrong.

The ARIA UAIG is much further along than the HTMl UAIG, though work on
the latter has been on going for some months now. I'm sure additional
help there would be appreciated--Cynthia is the facilitator of the TF.

I am not disagreeing with your assertion that relationships need to be
clearly articulated somewhere. That desire, however, is not contravened
by keeping normative ARIA requirements on user agents in normative ARIA
documents. As I'm sure you're well aware, ARIA isn't just about HTML.


> / Jonas


Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

The Linux Foundation
Chair, Open Accessibility:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/
Received on Friday, 1 June 2012 00:01:16 UTC

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