- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 12:14:24 +0100
- To: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Cc: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, public-html@w3.org, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CA+ri+V==6u8kJgq3rU6hSq_GyUyVC3=Q8aZEHA1p_YV=866SzA@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Leif, at this stage I am not offering a CP. I may in the future. >Has Firefox always implemented @longdesc like that? Or is it a variant >that came up together with the new 'aria-describedby link' method? the longdesc implementation = use URL in longdesc as URL for action (showLongdesc()) the describedby implementation use URL derived from link referenced as URL for action (showLongdesc()) >that what you propose suggests that one should use @longdesc to >point to a in-page anchor rather than pointing to an off-page resource. I think it would be useful provide a way to move to in page content. regards SteveF On 21 August 2012 12:03, Leif Halvard Silli < xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no> wrote: > Steve Faulkner, Tue, 21 Aug 2012 11:02:17 +0100: > > given that we have entrenched positions on both sides I would like to > > propose a comprimise: > > I like your compromise. (Se below.) But do you propose a new change > proposal, so to speak? And would it be a CP for ISSUE-30 or ISSUE-204 > or both? > > > we accept the use of aria-describedby as implemented in firefox and see > if > > we can converge on that. > > > > we allow longdesc, but improve it so that it can either take a URL (as it > > does currently) and it can also take an ID reference if as implemented in > > firefox that id reference points to a link then it does the same as the > > describedby and uses the href content of the link as the actionable URL. > In > > other words its a special case native HTML describedby. > > Has Firefox always implemented @longdesc like that? Or is it a variant > that came up together with the new 'aria-describedby link' method? > > At any rate: One great thing about what you propose here, is that in > ATs which do not support that method, it would still be > back-compatible. Because, in principle, in case of > > <img src=file alt=text longdesc=#fragment> > <a id=fragment href=link>link</a> > > then all the Firefox implementation does is that it reduces the steps > to the long description resource from two to one click. Thus, to AT > without support for this implementation, the long description link > would just be one click further away. > > > This means we will have a longdesc (that still works for current AT), > that > > can use a visible link or point to in page content (non link ID) and so > > does not suffer from hidden content syndrome, but does provide the > ability > > to explicitly associate a rich text description of the image. and IF we > > must hide the link it can be done. > > > > the implementation in browsers as shown by firefox for both describedby > and > > longdesc is simple (relatively) and I believe orders of magnitude simpler > > than what is being discussed. I also think that some AT will simply not > > implement the rich hidden content model as described, The NVDA developers > > have not implemented longdesc due to it having no visible UI (for > example). > > > > We move away from the territory of large swathes of content only visible > to > > AT. > > It sounds like an excellent compromise. But we may have moved past the > land of > > In fact, the only difference from Laura's CP in this is, it seems to > me, that what you propose suggests that one should use @longdesc to > point to a in-page anchor rather than pointing to an off-page resource. > (But perhaps a full CP would reveal more differences?) > > When it comes to the ISSUE-204 decision, then that decision does > however allow much more than simply hiding a link that, in turn, is > referenced by @longdesc and/or @aria-describedby. I don't say that that > is a problem - I just say that that is how it is. I think, if ATs are > going to treat @hidden as a synonym of @aria-hidden=true, then I would > not use @longdesc to point to a link that had been hidden with @hidden > (or with @aria-hidden=tru). I would then rather hide the link via other > means - such as pure and simple CSS. (Or else the link might not > presented to AT users, even when visible. Whereas if the link has > *only* been hidden via CSS, then the CSS :target selector can be used > to make the link visible on focus etc.) > -- > Leif Halvard Silli > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Tuesday, 21 August 2012 11:15:40 UTC