W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > November 2011

Re: CP remove hgroup add an outlineMask attribute.

From: James Graham <jgraham@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:49:12 +0100
Message-ID: <4EB7E1D8.2080203@opera.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
CC: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
On 11/07/2011 02:28 PM, Steve Faulkner wrote:
> The<hgroup>  element has no uniquely useful function other than to remove a
> heading from the outline generated using the outline algorithm.

As a general point, I disagree with this statement. To the extent that 
one believes in semantics, the semantic of "subheading" is clearly 
different from that of "heading" and it is not hard to imagine that UAs 
may want to process them differently even when they do not implement the 
full outline algorithm; e.g. a search engine may want to rank such text 
above normal body text by below fully heading text, or an AT might want 
to read a subheading together with its associated heading but in a 
different voice.

This is not to say that something like <h2 subheading> could not work. 
It has a reasonable fallback story but is verbose and feels a lot like a 
violation of DRY, therefore making it ugly. It also has the same 
problems that other proposals that don't group the heading and the 
subheading; that is it makes it easy to author in a way that is not 
processed as expected (e.g. putting the subheading before the heading 
without explicit <section> elements), and hard to implement correctly 
(presumably subheadings could occur anywhere in a section so one has to 
scan a lot of the tree looking for them).
Received on Monday, 7 November 2011 13:49:52 UTC

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