W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > December 2010

suggestion for abolition of <hgroup>

From: Dean Leigh <dean.leigh@deanleigh.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:07:30 -0000
Message-ID: <1174F8ED82AF7048905B3241C81BF17B8AF547@HEMV1AUKER.he.local>
To: <public-html@w3.org>
I am writing from the perspective of:

1. Builder of HTML templates for Web CMS

2. Trainer of non-technical users of Web CMS

3. Advocate for transparency in web sites and relevant search results


I agree with abolition of <hgroup>


I see the issues with <hgroup> as part of a bigger set of issues.




Problem 1



<title> is hidden allowing misleading SERPs




<title>Second Hand BMWs</title>

<h1>Why buy a Second Hand BMW when you can get a loan for a new one from


Problem 2



<h1> is only being used once as a page title removing the usefulness of
the full set of <h1> - <h6> as a hierarchy as intended.




Currently in our CMS when a user creates a page and gives it a Title we
automatically create <title>A page </title> and <h1>A page</h1> This is
easy to understand for the CMS user and ensures great SEO consistency
and results for our clients sites.


Problem 3



<title> is used as a Site Title as well as a Page Title (usually
separated by -)




<title>All about Ants - What ants eat </title>

<h1> What ants eat </h1>


<title>All about Ants - Where ants live </title>

<h1> Where ants live</h1>





<meta name="site title" content=" All about Ants " />

<meta name="page title" content=" What ants eat" />


<title>Can the move to <body > with a rule of there can only be one.


This frees h1 to do  its real job and be used many time in a page which
is easily flexible enough to do away with hgroup.



I would still recommend for CMS and non-technical users that <meta
name="page title"> and <title match> It would be up to Search providers
to determine reliance.


I have numerous use cases for my proposals but I feel this post is quite
long - please feel free to mail me directly for these.



Dean Leigh




Received on Wednesday, 1 December 2010 15:13:19 UTC

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