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Re: providing a long description using the summary and details elements.

From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:53:49 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=NgbCsqGaZ_ztdtuUTMLXwvjsCg98x-a+WdsMS@mail.gmail.com>
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Hi Laura,

>Could it work cleanly without JavaScript and no disclosure triangle?

When the details/summary is implemented in browsers it is expected that the
widget behaviour will not require javascript.
As for the disclosure traingle i guess that develpers will be able to
manipulate the visual appearance via CSS. But i would suggest that the
disclosure widget being visible is a good thing as it is unobtrusive but
lets everone know that there is additional content.
 >HTML4's longdesc is such a simple solution to the problem. This seems
complicated to me.

when implemented i don't think it will be complicated in its most basic form
its simple as:
<details>
<summary><img alt="text"></summary>
long description
</details>

regards
Stevef

On 24 August 2010 18:01, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve,
>
> > an idea:
> >
> > using the summary /details elements to provide a long description
>
> Wow Steve. This is cool. Thanks for thinking outside of the box.
>
> Could it work cleanly without JavaScript and no disclosure triangle?
> HTML4's longdesc is such a simple solution to the problem. This seems
> complicated to me.
>
> Sidebar: Something to keep in mind for the examples is that charts and
> graphs are not usually interchangeable with data tables so they don't
> usually make good long descriptions.
>
> Designers create data visualizations for the sighted because it makes
> the data easier to understand than raw numbers in a table. Ideally, a
> chart should convey ideas about the data that would not be readily
> apparent if available only in a table (but the table could be included
> too). A longdesc for a data chart should try to communicate the
> relationships, treads, etc that the image is intended to convey. Some
> analysis is typically required to describe the data. It's tempting to
> use a table as the sole content for a longdesc but that usually isn't
> enough.
>
> Joe Clark talked about this a few years ago in a WCAG comment. [1]
> WCAG revised their example after his comment to:
>
> "A bar chart compares how many widgets were sold in June, July, and
> August. The short label says, "Figure one - Sales in June, July and
> August." The longer description identifies the type of chart, provides
> a high-level summary of the data, trends and implications comparable
> to those available from the chart. Where possible and practical, the
> actual data is provided in a table."
>
> Best Regards,
> Laura
>
> [1]
> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/issue-tracking/viewdata_individual.php?id=789
>
> On 8/24/10, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > an idea:
> >
> > using the summary /details elements to provide a long description for an
> > image:
> >
> >
> >    - image goes in the <summary>
> >    - long description in <details>
> >    - use of longdesc attribute on image provides indication to browser/AT
> >    that details/summary is being used for the specific purpose of
> providing
> > a
> >    long description.
> >    - longdesc attribute with URL value (longdesc="URL") provided for
> >    backwards compatibility (suggest deprecated in HTML5)
> >    - longdesc attribute without an URL "longdesc" be specced as an
> indicator
> >    that a long description is present when image is sole content of the
> > summary
> >    element.
> >
> >  example code:
> >
> > <details>
> >   <summary role="button"><img src="images/table.gif" alt="Average
> rainfall
> > in millimetres by country and season." width="407" height="341"
> > longdesc="details.html#table"></summary>
> >
> > <table border="1" id="table" tabindex="0"><caption>Rainfall in
> millimetres
> > by Country and Season.</caption><tr> <td></td><th scope="col">UK</th><th
> > scope="col">Japan</th><th scope="col">Australia</th></tr><tr> <th
> > scope="row">Spring</th><td>5.5</td><td>2.4</td><td>2</td></tr><tr> <th
> > scope="row">Summer</th><td>4.5</td><td>3.4</td><td>2</td></tr><tr> <th
> > scope="row">Autumn</th><td>3.5</td><td>1.8</td><td>1.5</td></tr><tr> <th
> > scope="row">Winter</th><td>1.5</td><td>1.2</td><td>1</td></tr></table>
> >
> > </details>
> >
> > sort of working example
> > http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/misc/details.html (haven't
> > had time to work out glitches, but gives an idea of how it could work,
> > doesn't work in IE yet. note: scripting would not be required once
> > details/summary implemented by browsers).
> > resolves issues of:
> >
> >    - providing *standardized* method for a programnmatically associated
> long
> >    description
> >    - provides it inline next to the image
> >    - only displayed on user request
> >    - does not clutter design (note example does not a disclosure triangle
> as
> >    is suggested for details/summary in spec, but this would not clutter
> > desigh
> >    , i don't think)
> >    - deprecates current longdesc use, but provides for backwards compat
> and
> >    continued use of longdesc attribute
> >    - details could conatin a.n <iframe> to display long descriptions
> >    external to the page.
> >    - long desc available to anybody who wants it.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > with regards
> >
> > Steve Faulkner
> > Technical Director - TPG Europe
> > Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium
> >
> > www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
> > Web Accessibility Toolbar -
> > http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
>
> --
> Laura L. Carlson
>



-- 
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Wednesday, 25 August 2010 10:54:43 GMT

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