- From: Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc>
- Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:38:07 -0700
- To: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
- Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
> From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com> > On Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Jonas Sicking <jonas@sicking.cc> wrote: >> I agree that libraries could be used to add a lot of functionality >> that is missing from HTML and add ARIA to make this accessible. >> >> However relying on that still seems to have a few problems: >> >> 1. A lot of people don't use libraries. I still see lots of websites >> that use hand rolled date pickers (for example using 3 <select>s) and >> aren't otherwise using libraries. >> > > I have to assume that most of the people who are doing the hand rolled > work are doing so because they want to play with the technology on > their own, or they did the work before the libraries existed. I wouldn't make the same assumption, but I don't like guessing. >> 2. What do you do in non scripted environments, such as HTML UAs other >> than browsers? >> > > Well, I would say that the progress element is pretty useless whether > it's built-in or created via a library. Yes, for <progress> I can't immediately think of use cases. However <figure>, <aside>, <meter>, <details> seem useful for generic documents. > In fact, I'd rather you focus specifically on cost and benefits > perhaps related to the elements in my change proposals? I can't help > this would focus the discussion on specifics. I'm not sure how to do this given that I can't think of a way to get any hard numbers to compare. >> 3. You can't use scripting libraries to insert a date picker directly >> in the markup. >> > > Are you talking about modifying the markup? Or inserting a date picker > into the DOM and associated it with the element? I can using a text editor, or using PHP, create simple markup that contains a checkbox: <html> <head>...</head> <body> <form action="form.php"> <label>I read the agreement <input type=checkbox name=ireadit></label> <form> </body> </html> However if I want to add a date picker (to allow the user to indicate when he/she read the agreement) there is no way to insert that directly in the markup. Instead I have to call into script to do a bunch of post processing on the DOM. I.e. I can't include the date picker in the *markup*. >> 4. How would a HTML editor insert a date picker? If it inserts a pile >> of <div>s with ARIA, will another editor understand how to handle >> this? While retaining styling etc? > > An HTML editor wouldn't. This isn't a HTML element. The elements to > make up the datepicker are inserted into the DOM, not markup. I would > say that's how Opera works now, but we don't have direction access to > the components. If HTML editors can't insert date pickers, that would be a loss in my opinion. I don't see why they wouldn't want to do that given that they currently support inserting other form elements. >> However I will note that <select> and <input type=checkbox> are >> largely unstylable, but still have seen quite a success on the web >> today. And I'll also note CSS is already powerful enough to style the >> hidden attribute and the <figure> and <aside> elements. So I don't see >> that lack of styleablility could be an argument to remove those. >> > > Again, though, these elements are part of the DOM, and can be styled. > The Date picker components are not accessible by us. All we can do is > cast a CSS styling over the whole thing, which unfortunately has > negative consequences on the actual date field, whether the date > picker is supported or not. I can't really do much more than repeat the section from my mail that you are quoting, so to avoid going in circles I won't. / Jonas
Received on Tuesday, 6 April 2010 21:39:04 UTC