- From: Shelley Powers <shelleyp@burningbird.net>
- Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:04:16 -0500
- To: "public-html@w3.org WG" <public-html@w3.org>
- CC: Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
Sorry, not a member of HTML WG, so can't reply directly: Your question: So, as a first step, can I get people to express opinions on which of the following should apply to <font color="blue">: 1) It's a conformance error, such as it is today in HTML 5. 2) It's a a downplayed error at it represents vestigial markup. 3) It's conformant. 4) The HTML 5 spec should be silent on this matter. Note: I'm not asking for general principles or how to apply the above answer to any other question. It is quite possible that there might be some who feel that font should be a conformance error and summary should be conformant, or vice versa, or that the spec should address one but not the other. I'm simply asking about the color attribute on the font element at this time. ----- You're asking for simple assertions where none exist. How deprecation and obsolete elements are handled today: FONT was deprecated in HTML 4, which means that it could be made obsolete in HTML5. Because FONT was deprecated, if you used FONT with HTML 4.01 strict, you would get validation errors. You could use it with HTML 4.01 transitional. If FONT is made obsolete in the next version of HTML, HTML 5, then the policy is that there's no guarantee that the item will be supported by user agents. That it would be invalid to use the element with the newer version of HTML is a given. If we consider that a "downplayed error" is the HTML WG's redefinition of deprecation, and "conformance error" seems to be a redefinition of, and expansion of, obsolete, then the use of FONT is , minimally, a "downplayed error" because FONT was deprecated in HTML 4. It could also be a "conformance error", if the working group moves to obsolete the item. However, the behavior demanded of "conformance" is different than the behavior that had been demanded with validation. Previous specifications have stated that deprecated elements must be supported by user agents, though the use of the item can generate a validation error. If the element is made obsolete in a future generation of the specification, it's use is invalid, and people are warned that it may no longer be supported by user agents. However, no demands on how user agents handle the obsolete item are made. The W3C basically warns folks that there is no guarantee of support for obsolete elements. With the new June 3rd addition to the HTML 5 specification that demands active non-support for elements/attributes not specifically mentioned in the spec, user agents are now told that they must not support non-existent (never existed, or previously existed but now obsolete) elements and attributes. According to the HTML 5 spec, FONT could then be non-conformant, which means, if I read the HTML 5 spec correctly, user agents _must not_ support the element. However, this does not align with past practices associated with the HTML specifications. From the HTML 4.01 specification: "This specification does not define how conforming user agents handle general error conditions, including how user agents behave when they encounter elements, attributes, attribute values, or entities not specified in this document. " That has been replaced with, as you pointed out: "Note: There is no implied relationship between document conformance requirements and implementation conformance requirements. User agents are not free to handle non-conformant documents as they please; the processing model described in this specification applies to implementations regardless of the conformity of the input documents." And "Authoring tools and markup generators must generate conforming documents. Conformance criteria that apply to authors also apply to authoring tools, where appropriate." Frankly, I find this unacceptable. How to fit all of this into your options list: both option 1 and 2 are valid choices, as FONT can continue as a deprecated element (or "downplayed error" if we must), or it can be made obsolete in this iteration of HTML. However, I choose option 4, as it is the only way to ensure a smooth transitioning of behavior between HTML specifications. Shelley
Received on Tuesday, 9 June 2009 13:05:00 UTC