- From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:09:58 +0100
- To: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>
- Cc: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
Hi charles, > - this means that accessibility is harmed by the summary attribute. As I have pointed out previously on this point, many of the bogus examples of summary attribute use are never announced by screen readers (that support @summary) as they are found on tables used for layout, which the screen readers ignore via the use of heuristics to filter out inapropriate table use. regards stevef 2009/6/8 Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>: > There has been a lot of discussion about how various accessibility features > have, for various reasons, failed on teh web. > > The most recent such argument I read was this morning, and stating what I > understood it runs: > > - the summary attribute (in this case) more often than not contains stuff > that isn't a valid and useful value. > - this means that in most cases of its use, accessibility is not served. > - this means that accessibility is harmed by the summary attribute. > - this means it is a failure and we should use something else. > > It is specifically the third step (which is often the most implicit part of > the reasoning) that I think needs to be examined more carefully. > > From my understanding and experience, accessibility of the web overall is > not very good. There are lots and lots of things that cause problems. > However, in various specific cases it has improved. > > For example, when working on WCAG 1 a decade ago people said it is simply > outrageous to demand alt attributes in order to ensure accessibility - > despite the fact that without them, it is completely obvious to everyone I > have talked to that there will be major accessibility issues. Alt attributes > are still used badly or not at all in many cases (and despite our best > efforts, even here at Opera we have a few such cases pop up from time to > time), but I believe there are far more good uses of alt text than there > were 10 years ago. > > Further, I believe that this represents an improvement in accessibility. > This is despite the common use of alt="" or some other default meaningless > text where it is inappropriate, which actually reduces the accessibility of > the particular page even in comparison to simply leaving off alt, by > actively misleading the user. (Leaving off alt is still going to break > accessibility in such cases, it is just a slightly lesser among available > evils, in a case where it is possible to do good). > > In other words, my experience in accessibility leads me to believe that in > general, the presence of lots of broken and harmful content is not > necessarily a failure of a feature. Otherwise I would conclude that the > effort to achieve accessibility has failed - and while I believe that > unfortunately accessibility is still woefully inadequate (and have some > blame to share around...) I think that there has actually been real > improvement, measured in terms of people's increased ability to do things. > > A clear assumption here is that failure is a relative, rather than absolute > term. And this invites the further reflection that using something which is > less good may be blocking us from implementing something that would be used > better - i.e. would lead to a higher incidence of people being able to do > things, as a measure of accessibility. > > Indeed, finding a better solution is why we don't simply make something and > then stop. Promoting a better solution over a worse one is valuable. But > measuring better is based on guesswork. I have argued (for many years, in > particular with my friend John Foliot) that the accesskey attribute in HTML > has suffered from terrible advice leading to unworkable browser > implementations (a generally recognised statement), but that this is > actually very easy to fix, only requiring a few browsers to change their > implementation in relatively simple ways. And I have argued that this would > be better than implementing the new access element proposed by the XHTML2 > WG. > > I cannot prove that argument, since it is based on predicting the future. I > can point to the large amount of data that will not need to be changed, > although in practice that argument will lose its value over time as less of > that data remains important (or even available) and it becomes an > increasingly small fraction of the web. I can explain that as well as the > data, the tools and knowledge that lead to its production are going to hang > around - and will be used to generate new content the same as old content > for some time (looking at the state of HTML on the web, one would suspect > that it will be a long time before poor old tools are replaced), which > delays the previous replacement effect. Some people upgrade faster than > others - corporate environments, university laboratories, private users with > specific requirements, poor schools and rich start-ups are all different > environments. And so on... > > It has been proposed to remove a number of accessibility features of HTML on > the basis that they don't work well - and on the basis that this is > therefore harmful, so just removing them is better than doing nothing. I > argue that this is not true. > > There are other factors. Accessibility attributes can be used for Search > Engine spamming, and this is obviously counter to the specific interests of > some WG members (and not a great thing for the web as a whole). The failure > of accessibility frustrates users, and leads to criticism of the technology. > The fact that upgrading systems and knowledge of those systems is extra > difficult for many people who require accessibility features, leading to > people not adopting things that are "better" when they are available, can > complicate the picture by misleading casual observers as to the relative > value of various features (and by making it unclear even to experts). And so > on... > > It seems to me that we should be far less hasty to remove things from HTML > which were designed to support accessibility - and far more hasty to work on > adding an alternative which is better, in order to actually field test the > two side by side for long enough to understand which of our assumptions were > brilliant insights and which were foolishness... because I am certain that > we will all find things we backed on both sides of that continuum. > > cheers > > Chaals > > -- > Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group > je parle franįais -- hablo espaņol -- jeg lærer norsk > http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com > > -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG Europe Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org Web Accessibility Toolbar - http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Monday, 8 June 2009 10:10:36 UTC