- From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 16:52:38 -0600
- To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
- Cc: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Laura Carlson > <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi Shelley, >> >>> True, people will want to use any element in any way, but that doesn't >>> mean we have to codify such usage. >> >> This all seems to go back to the "Pave The Cowpaths" Design Principle >> [1], which has been argued explicitly and implicitly for over two and >> a half years in many discussions. > > I've given up on cowpaths. > > For the last ten years, HTML has told page authors to use summary on > tables, and definition lists (dl) for dialogs, that dt is definition > term, and dd is definition description. Now, suddenly, seemingly, > we've shot the cows. > > No one wants to keep bad practices, like using tables for layout. But > too many of the changes seem arbitrary, and based on opinion and > hearsay. > >> >> The HTML 5 design principles never achieved consensus and here we are, >> trying to reach Last Call. HTML5 principles are a “work in progress” >> [2]. >> >> There is no meeting of the minds on the basic principles at this late >> date. So it is difficult to agree on specifics. We keep having the >> same types of circular debates here [3] [4] and elsewhere [5] [6]. >> > > At least the figure discussion is sparkly new. Well, kind of. It's a > new path for an old story. > > What's happening now is to be expected. > > The odd thing about work that impacts on many different groups of > people, is that at some point you have to work towards general > agreement with enough of the community to give credence to what you > create. If you don't sooner, you will have to later. And the later you > wait, the more contentious the issues, the larger the disagreements, > the wider the chasms between groups. > > Interesting the discussion in the accessibility growth. Thanks for > pointing it out here. I don't always keep up with the ally group's > emails. > >> Best Regards, >> Laura > > Regards > > Shelley > >> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007May/thread.html#msg940 >> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#sotd >> [3] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8404 >> [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Dec/thread.html#msg5 >> [5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2009Dec/0002.html >> [6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2009Dec/0003.html >> -- >> Laura L. Carlson >> > PS, I realize that cowpaths have to do with users following their own inclinations. But the worst thing you can do to users is be inconsistent--saying one thing one time, and something completely different another, and have no legitimate reason for the change. Too much of that happening in HTML5. Shelley
Received on Tuesday, 1 December 2009 22:53:12 UTC