- From: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:16:28 +1000
- To: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 1:36 AM, Toby Inkster<tai@g5n.co.uk> wrote: > On 23 Aug 2009, at 14:00, Karl Dubost wrote: > > * Opera implements it in View > Toolbars > Navigation > > (still available in 10. just tested it.) > > Pretty sure that Opera's "fast forward" feature uses rel=next too. > That said, I agree with Maciej that the specification should not mandate > browser behaviour in this area. I would hope that instead most browser > vendors would independently decide that such features are helpful. I actually think there is a more general case to make for HTML to provide a description of what a "default display" of every element should be, if there is one. This would not necessarily be inside the HTML spec, but could be a companion document. Some of the elements in HTML5 already have these recommendations - there is even a whole section on rendering expectations, see http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#rendering . It for example states that the new nav, article, aside, and section elements are block elements and thus behave like div tags. Any of these rendering expectations can be overruled by author styling and that is good. But it would be appropriate to recommend some more of the default rendering, such that authors have an expectation across browsers what the display would be without providing extra styling commands. For example, there are styling expectations provided for the new menu element (which, incidentally, I recently wanted to use and was unhappy to find that no browser implements yet): http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#menus-intro "For example, the following represents a toolbar with three menu buttons on it, each of which has a dropdown menu with a series of options:.." etc. As another example, there are styling expectations provided for the new video element: "The video element's controls attribute is not expected to affect the size of the rendering; controls are expected to be overlaid with the page content without causing any layout changes, and are expected to disappear when the user does not need them." and "When a video element represents its poster frame, the poster frame is expected to be rendered at the largest size that maintains the poster frame's aspect ratio without being taller or wider than the video element itself, and is expected to be centered in the video element." Also, in the video section we find: "Video content should be rendered inside the element's playback area such that the video content is shown centered in the playback area at the largest possible size that fits completely within it, with the video content's aspect ratio being preserved. " and "User agents should provide controls to enable or disable the display of closed captions associated with the video stream, though such features should, again, not interfere with the page's normal rendering." And further in the media element section we find a whole section on how to expose a user interface to the user: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#expose-a-user-interface-to-the-user I think describing these default displays is important and a very good thing. As said, I believe they may not need to be in the HTML5 spec itself, but I think they should be given for every element, such that web developers know what to expect if they use a particular element. The description would of course need to be careful to provide the absolute minimum necessary for interoperability (e.g. the general positioning and expanse) but not remove the ability of browser vendors to provide their specific styling (colours, shades, shape of buttons etc). That we are doing it for some elements and are ignoring others is IMHO a mistake. Regards, Silvia.
Received on Sunday, 23 August 2009 23:17:23 UTC