- From: Leif Halvard Silli <lhs@malform.no>
- Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:36:53 +0200
- To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
- CC: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Maciej Stachowiak On 09-08-17 11.56: > > On Aug 17, 2009, at 2:40 AM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote: > >> On 17/08/2009 10:05, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: >>>> In situations like: >>>> >>>> <a href="#"><img src="delete.png" alt=""></a> >>>> >>>> It's useful to AT for the "img" to be exposed and to be able to access >>>> "src" attributes for the purpose of providing a substitute for proper >>>> alternative text. >>> >>> If that's so, then wouldn't it be better for authors to use alt="" >>> instead of role="presentation", so that AT can decide whether it needs >>> to expose the image anyway? >> >> I don't think role="presentation" is appropriate in that case. It's >> not a presentational image. > > I don't think alt="" is appropriate either, for the same reason. But you > are right that such usage is common nonetheless. There you have an interesting point. I believe that ARIA permits @role="presentation" to be applied to elements with text. (?) And @alt represents textual content. Which further supports that @role should be viewed as orthogonal to @alt. >>> In particular, if your example was marked up >>> like this: >>> >>> <a href="#"><img src="delete.png" role="presentation"></a> >>> >>> Then isn't it equally necessary and appropriate for AT to expose that >>> image? >> >> I think it's important that W3C specs do not produce a situation where >> "role='presentation'" is likely to be widely misused in that way. > > The specific proposal on the table was as follows: > > - Every time the validator sees alt="" without role="presentation", it > should issue a warning advising the author to add role="presentation". > > I believe this would lead to the kind of misuse that you are concerned > about. Do you think this kind of warning is a good idea? No, it is not the best idea, even if might not be bad. I think, as you say that it could cause some misuse and some misjudgment. I also fear that authors would feel that such a thing would be meaningless. They would tend to think that "but what more does it help if I add role='presentation'?" So therefore, again, what do you think about the proposal that validators should consider such instances as "tentatively valid" but ask authors to add a @role value and revalidate? -- leif halvard silli
Received on Monday, 17 August 2009 21:37:37 UTC