- From: Shelley Powers <shelley.just@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 14:02:12 -0500
- To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
- Cc: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Maciej Stachowiak<mjs@apple.com> wrote: > > I believe there are two different value systems in conflict in the summary > dicussion: > > A) HTML5 should guide authors toward choices that will result in the best > accessibility outcomes, based on reasoning from the best evidence we have > available. Argument that are not outcome-driven or evidence-based are seen > as irrelevant, from this point of view. > > B) If HTML5 provides advisory guidance on how to use HTML constructs to make > accessible documents, it should not directly contradict other W3C guidance > on accessibility. It's ok, from this point of view, to expand on guidance, > but direct contradiction is seen as giving an inconsistent message. > > I don't think we can always reconcile these two value systems. Sometimes > there is no solution that will meet both goals. > > In this case, I believe a solution may be possible which can satisfy > everyone. Here is my proposal: > > 1) HTML5 will continue to list and advise use of new techniques that can be > alternatives to summary="". > > 2) HTML5 will not make any flat direct statements that summary="" shouldn't > or can't be used. Instead, it will say that authors SHOULD use one of the > other techniques when possible and appropriate. In particular, it should > advise authors to consider: > (a) Is a particular piece of information useful to the blind or visually > impaired? -- If not, it shouldn't be included in summary. Authors must not > put useless text in summary to give a pro forma appearance of accessibility. > (b) Is a particular piece of information useful in a visual rendering as > well? For example, is it useful to people of normal ability, or to other > handicap groups, such as the cognitively disabled? -- If so, the information > should be included in a way that is available to everyone, such as > <caption>. If the information would be potentially useful, but possibly > distracting, it can be made available to everyone but hidden by default, for > example using <details>. For example, describing the conclusions of the data > in a table is useful to everyone. Explaining how to read the table, if not > obvious from the headers alone, is useful to everyone. Describing the > structure of the table, if it is easy to grasp visually, may not be useful > to everyone. > > In other words, rather than focusing on what authors shouldn't do, the spec > will focus on what they should do instead. I believe this achieves the goal > of promoting better accessibility outcomes, without directly contradicting > WCAG2. > > 3) HTML5 will continue to include a mandatory warning for summary="". The > purpose is not to completely prevent authors from using summary="", but > rather to bring alternatives to their attention, as described above. > > 4) The goal of HTML5 in this case is to promote good accessibility outcomes > based on evidence. Telling someone that the technique they are using is dumb > or wrong, even by implication, is not necessary to serve this goal, > providing relevant information is what serves the goal. Thus, the spec will > be changed to avoid disparaging summary in unnecessary ways. For example, > describing summary="" only in the "obsolete features" section and not in the > "table" section gives the appearance of disparagement. There may not be an > evidence-based reason to stop doing this, but I don't see an evidence-based > reason to continue doing it, either. So, why needlessly give offense if the > goal can be served either way? > > 5) HTML WG will propose a WCAG2 Techniques update to the appropriate working > group of WAI (is it PFWG or WCAG WG?) to better reflect HTML5 features for > describing tables. I can draft a message to communicate this, but I'd like > to request: > (a) John Foliot as a co-signer (assuming he agrees with the language), > since he said he'd support an effort to update WCAG2, and I'd like to make > clear that this is a coordination effort, not an attempt to pick a fight. > (b) I'd like to ask for some official blessing from the HTML WG for this > message, since WAI apparently takes official input from Working Groups more > seriously than input from individuals. > > > I'd particularly like to hear from John Foliot and Ian Hickson whether this > would be a satisfactory outcome. > > Regards, > Maciej > > > All due respect to John and Ian, but I would object to your compromise. Shelley
Received on Tuesday, 4 August 2009 19:02:53 UTC