{minutes} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-24: Action items and Issues from Paul Cotton on 2011-02-24 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2011)

From: Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 20:17:42 +0000
To: "public-html-wg-announce@w3.org" <public-html-wg-announce@w3.org>
Message-ID: <E3EACD022300B94D88613639CF4E25F81870EA7F@TK5EX14MBXC134.redmond.corp.microsoft.>
The minutes of the Feb 24 HTML Weekly Teleconference are below and at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html

/paulc

Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329


[Description: W3C]<http://www.w3.org/>

- DRAFT -
HTML Weekly Teleconference
24 Feb 2011

Agenda<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2011JanMar/0016.html>

Attendees
Present
Regrets
Chair
paulc
Scribe
rubys
Contents

  *   Topics<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#agenda>
     *   ACTION items due by Thursday, February 24<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item01>
     *   New Issues This Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item02>
     *   Items Closed Last Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item03>
     *   Items Closing Next Week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item04>
     *   New Surveys this week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item05>
     *   Decisions this week<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item06>
     *   Re-opening resolved Issues<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item07>
     *   Other Business<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item08>
     *   Chair and Scribe for next meeting<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item09>
     *   Adjournment<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#item10>
  *   Summary of Action Items<http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-wg-minutes.html#ActionSummary>

________________________________

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12167] The requirement on the listing element conflicts with its old definition (which requires a special parsing mode where no markup except the element's end tag is recognized) and usage. It is better to avoid requiring any support than to require support that <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0950.html> 4** [Bug 12166] The requirement on the xmp element conflicts with its old definition (which requires a

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12169] I like cheese" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0953.html> 4** [Bug 12168] Shouldn't you have a rule somewhere like body { background: white } or html { background: white }? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0951.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12141] Specifically state that all <track> options be exposed to the end user <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0954.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12141] Specifically state that all <track> options be exposed to the end user" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0955.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Tantek: sitting in the second row, watching Robert give a talk on The Cure @MozHQ #notwhatyouthink #html5 #canvas. <11http://tantek.com/2011/054/t3/robert-the-cure-html5-canvas>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 11393] End tag fails to break out of foreign content <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0956.html>

<pimpbot> changes: sam: Close issue 147-161 <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-diffs/2011Feb/0136.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 11393] End tag fails to break out of foreign content" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0957.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12171] Define "resolve an address" here until there's a useful spec to reference. The lack of specification seriously hurts any attempt to improve interoperability for anything related to URLs <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0959.html> 4** [Bug 12171] New: Define "resolve an address" here until there's a useful spec to reference. The lack of specification seriously hurts any attempt to improve interoperab

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12171] Define "resolve an address" here until there's a useful spec to reference. The lack of specification seriously hurts any attempt to improve interoperability for anything related to URLs" (2 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0960.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: "[Bug 12171] Define "resolve an address" here until there's a useful spec to reference. The lack of specification seriously hurts any attempt to improve interoperability for anything related to URLs" (3 messages in thread) <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0961.html>

<pimpbot> planet: Anne van Kesteren: WHATWG, W3C, and HTML <11http://annevankesteren.nl/2011/02/html-development>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12172] What should startOffsetTime return when the current timeline offset is not known? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0963.html> 4** [Bug 12172] New: What should startOffsetTime return when the current timeline offset is not known? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0962.html>

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12174] New: Structured Clone 'Object' links to HTMLObjectElement? <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0964.html>

<MikeSmith> issue-161?

<trackbot> ISSUE-161 -- Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/161

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-161: Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-24: Action items and Issues from Paul Cotton on 2011-02-23 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<pimpbot> planet: ieblog: Web Tracking Protection: An Emerging Internet Standard that Helps Protect Consumers from Tracking <11http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2011/02/24/web-tracking-protection-an-emerging-internet-standard-that-helps-protect-consumers-from-tracking.aspx>

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Date: 24 February 2011

<scribe> scribenick: rubys

<paulc_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2011JanMar/0016.html

<pimpbot> Title: {agenda} HTML WG telecon 2011-02-24: Action items and Issues from Paul Cotton on 2011-02-23 (public-html-wg-announce@w3.org from January to March 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc_> plh: are you joining the call?

<Stevef> paulc_: have provided a change proposal for issue 161 for the chairs consideration even though it is 12 hours past the deadline http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0407.html

<pimpbot> Title: change proposal for issue 161 from Steve Faulkner on 2011-02-24 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc_> Question of the day: When is HTML5 going to be done?

<paulc_> DNLA asked me this question.

<Julian> is DNLA done?

<plh> actually, I asked if it was going to be done by April 2011 :)

<paulc_> Julian: No but they want to take a dependency on HTML5.
ACTION items due by Thursday, February 24

action-29?

<trackbot> ACTION-29 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring -- due 2011-02-24 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/29

<pimpbot> Title: ACTION-29: Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

plh: last time I said that there was a survey ongoing within the PSIG.... this survey came back negative
... we have two proposals, one coming from the psig, and one coming from a subset of the psig and the chairs
... there is a proposal to send both to the AC

paulc: time schedule?

plh: should go to the AC in the next two weeks; then there would be a four weeks of time

paulc: change the action item to the end of march?

action-29 due 31 March

<trackbot> ACTION-29 Follow up on the idea of a free-software-compatible license for a note on HTML authoring due date now 31 March

paulc: any other comments?
New Issues This Week

issue-34?

<trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- Can we get access to tools that determine how often markup is used on the web? -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/34

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-34: Can we get access to tools that determine how often markup is used on the web? - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: this issue was originally closed due to lack of proposals, since then a proposal has been received and has been reopened as a last call issue
... this issue was discussed in the a11y TF call

issue-134?

<trackbot> ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-134: Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)
Items Closed Last Week

issue-122?

<trackbot> ISSUE-122 -- alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/122

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-122: alt text and description for Lady of Shalott example - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: chairs are evaluating proposals

issue-129?

<trackbot> ISSUE-129 -- replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/129

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: poll has been complete, and have received a request to expedite this issue
... the a11y tf will resend that request with more information

issue-131?

<trackbot> ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-131: Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: we received a CP and have issued a call for counter proposals, due Mar 22
... our march to last had a number of calls for CPs completing now, and the chairs are immediately issuing calls for counter proposals

ISSUE-152?

<trackbot> ISSUE-152 -- Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/152

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-152: Handling of additional tracks of a multitrack audio/video resource - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: we received a CP and immediately issued a call for counter proposals which is due Mar 22

ISSUE-155?

<trackbot> ISSUE-155 -- make <table border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0"> conforming -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/155

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-155: make conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: we received a CP and immediately issued a call for counter proposals due Mar 22

ISSUE-156?

<trackbot> ISSUE-156 -- Permit closing tag for new, void elements - for legacy compatibility = XHTML alignment -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/156

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-156: Permit closing tag for new, void elements - for legacy compatibility = XHTML alignment - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: closed without prejudice as we did not receive any change proposals
... any questions?
... Items Closing This Week
... four issues closed yesterday

issue-157?

<trackbot> ISSUE-157 -- A comprehensive, semantic image map specification -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/157

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-157: A comprehensive, semantic image map specification - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: closed as no change proposals were received

issue-158?

<trackbot> ISSUE-158 -- HTML4's content-model for <object> should continue -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/158

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-158: HTML4s content-model for should continue - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: no proposals were received, and closed without prejudice

issue-160?

<trackbot> ISSUE-160 -- Remove restriction on command element as part of a menu -- raised

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/160

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-160: Remove restriction on command element as part of a menu - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: also closed yesterday, and was closed as no change proposal was provided

issue-161?

<trackbot> ISSUE-161 -- Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/161

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-161: Create document defining mappings from html elements to platform accessibility apis - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: change proposals closed yesterday, and steve issued a late change proposal and the chairs will have to deal with the late submission

<MikeSmith> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0212.html

<pimpbot> Title: change proposal for issue 161 from Steve Faulkner on 2011-02-24 (public-html-a11y@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc_> Late proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0407.html

<pimpbot> Title: change proposal for issue 161 from Steve Faulkner on 2011-02-24 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 12175] the order of the loadedmetadata, loadeddata and suspend event is not defined <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0966.html> 4** [Bug 12175] New: the order of the loadedmetadata, loadeddata and suspend event is not defined <11http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2011Feb/0965.html>

paulc: the chairs will have to evaluate whether accepting this issue will prejudice the ability for others to provide a counter proposal by the deadline
... lets take this offline

issue-144?

<trackbot> ISSUE-144 -- <u> should be conforming -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/144

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-144: should be conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: call for revisions closes today
Items Closing Next Week

paulc: in each of these, if we don't receive an alternate we will call for consensus

issue-120?

<trackbot> ISSUE-120 -- Use of prefixes is too complicated for a Web technology -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/120

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-120: Use of prefixes is too complicated for a Web technology - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: call is due Mar 3

issue-139?

<trackbot> ISSUE-139 -- HTML5 spec mentions Microdata in Acknowledgements -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/139

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-139: HTML5 spec mentions Microdata in Acknowledgements - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: also due Mar 3

issue-140?

<trackbot> ISSUE-140 -- clarify the applicability of the term "conforming document" in cases where "applicable specifications" had been used to augment or change the base HTML5 specification -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/140

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-140: clarify the applicability of the term "conforming document" in cases where "applicable specifications" had been used to augment or change the base HTML5 specification - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: alternate or counter proposals also due mar 3

issue-142?

<trackbot> ISSUE-142 -- No alternative text description for video key frame (poster) -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/142

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-142: No alternative text description for video key frame (poster) - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: alternate or counter proposals also due mar 3

issue-145?

<trackbot> ISSUE-145 -- use of "codecs" parameter -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/145

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-145: use of "codecs" parameter - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: alternate or counter proposals also due mar 3

julian: the text that 145 affects was removed due to bug 11984

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11984 contributor, P3, REOPENED, 13Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header

ISSUE-9?

<trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9: how accessibility works for is unclear - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0410.html

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-9 video-accessibility: Call for Consensus to close in favor of specific issues, or Alternate/Counter-Proposals from Maciej Stachowiak on 2011-02-24 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0410.html

issue-119?

<trackbot> ISSUE-119 -- Certain relationships take on a special meaning when repeated; other solutions may be cleaner -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/119

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-119: Certain relationships take on a special meaning when repeated; other solutions may be cleaner - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: this is pending the chairs decision on 118

issue-155?

<trackbot> ISSUE-155 -- make <table border="1" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0"> conforming -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/155

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-155: make conforming - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0375.html

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-155 table-border - Chairs Solicit Alternate Proposals or Counter-Proposals from Sam Ruby on 2011-02-23 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: a call for alternate/counter proposals was issued, due 22 Mar
New Surveys this week

issue-124?

<trackbot> ISSUE-124 -- nofollow/noreferrer not allowed on <link> -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/124

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-124: nofollow/noreferrer not allowed on - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: poll closes Feb 28

issue-125?

<trackbot> ISSUE-125 -- Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/125

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-125: Requirement to break RFC 2616 compliance with respect to single quotes not needed for legacy content - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: poll also closes Feb 28

issue-130?

<trackbot> ISSUE-130 -- allow tables to be used for layout purposes -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/130

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-130: allow tables to be used for layout purposes - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: poll also closes Feb 28
Decisions this week

issue-89?

<trackbot> ISSUE-89 -- Remove Section 4.12 Common Idioms without dedicated Elements -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/89

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-89: Remove Section 4.12 Common Idioms without dedicated Elements - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0372.html

<pimpbot> Title: Working Group Decision on ISSUE-89 from Sam Ruby on 2011-02-22 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

issue-118?

<trackbot> ISSUE-118 -- Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/118

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-118: Specification breaks semantics of existing link relations "index" and "first" - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

paulc: chairs have a draft decision, and should post it either today or tomorrow
... this issue is linked to issue 119
Re-opening resolved Issues

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11447

<pimpbot> 1111447: laura.lee.carlson, P2, NEW, 13Please document in the decision policy the procedure for reopening an issue

paulc: the bug is a request from Laura Carlson; the chairs have a consensus on how to proceed; we simply need to document it
... essentially we need a clear indication that there is new information, and we would prefer that any request be accompanied with a change proposal so that we can restart in step 3
... we have been applying that to issue-30

issue-30?

<trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- closed

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30

<pimpbot> Title: ISSUE-30: Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images - HTML Weekly Tracker (at www.w3.org)

<paulc_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0362.html

<pimpbot> Title: Request to reopen HTML-ISSUE-30 from Laura Carlson on 2011-02-22 (public-html@w3.org from February 2011) (at lists.w3.org)

paulc: we have requested that the new information be clearly identified; the request already was accompanied by a change proposal
... the consensus of the chairs is that this will be reopened (if it is) that it will be reopened as a last call item

rubys: laura has provided the identification of what is new information

paulc: we should be able to resolve this in the next day or so
Other Business

bug 11984?

<pimpbot> 11http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11984 contributor, P3, REOPENED, 13Simplify <video> for implementors and authors by ignoring the Content-Type HTTP header

paulc: the editor made a change to suggest that user agents should sniff; we seem to have differing opinions within the working group...

mjs: we are going to officially ask for a revert, that will be done shortly; we previously had reopened the issue

paulc: (to julian) how do you think this affects issue-145?

julian: we should remind people about the deadline for issue-145

paulc: we should put that in our note requesting the revert
... any other comments?
Chair and Scribe for next meeting

paulc: it is sam's turn to chair, any volunteers to scribe?
... adrian volunteers to scribe
Adjournment
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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