RE: {minutes} HTML WG media telecon 2012-10-09 - media source extension action and bugs

Minutes -> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-html-media-minutes.html


- DRAFT -

HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

09 Oct 2012

 Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
  markw, paulc, adrianba, matt, Clarke, pal, BobLund, Aaron_Colwell, strobe, ddorwin
Regrets
  John_Simmons
Chair
  Paul Cotton
Scribe
  Adrian Bateman
Contents
Topics
1.Role call and introductions
2.Preview meeting minutes
3.Review of action items
4.TPAC meeting plans
5.Baseline documents
6.Chair and scribe for next meeting
7.Adjournment

Summary of Action Items

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Role call and introductions

paulc: done

Preview meeting minutes

http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html


paulc: didn't see any comments on the minutes

Review of action items

paulc: none assigned to MSE work

TPAC meeting plans

paulc: wg meeting thur/fri nov 1/2 in lyon, france
 ... same place as November 2010
 ... confirmed we have the same two meeting rooms we had 2 years ago
 ... i want to confirm that the people on the call are okay with the general plan
 ... that MSE and EME experts meet for 90mins to 2 hours at TPAC
 ... having talked to some of the editors about this i want to suggest that we meet on thursday
 ... so that the editors can meet afterwards to discuss how to take actions as a result of the meeting
 ... and the goal would be to have enough discussion at TPAC to make sure we can do a CfC for a FPWD immediately after TPAC
 ... we want to make sure we have the general discussion for both specs in the right direction
 ... so that the group will be happy to go to FPWD
 ... this doesn't mean every bug closed
 ... but it means the scope and direction is well understood
 ... comments?
 ... chairs will build a wiki site for unconference meeting requests so my proposal is to request 90-120 mins for each of the media specs
 ... in the past the HTML WG meeting session discusses the ideas at 9am on the first day
 ... and the group discusses which to talk about

pal: will there be a conference bridge?

paulc: the rooms will have a bridge so we'll see if that is feasible
 ... i want to warn you that there are 44 members and 40+ observers registered and the room is pretty large and even with the phone in the middle of the room it's not clear how audible to the meeting would be

<pal> thanks

matt: when will we know what the agenda will be for that thursday?

paulc: at 9.30am on thursday

matt: so we should come in at 9am to show our support of the topics

paulc: yes
 ... this is the model that we've done before and it worked well
 ... we have one coordination request already so sometimes the chairs anchor the coordination requests when they involve another WG
 ... but the rest of the sessions are determined by unconference

matt: i suspect that some people will be in other meetings too

paulc: the agenda will be set at 9am on thursday

Baseline documents

paulc: aaron had produced a draft on oct 1 that resolved 5 bugs and then on oct 8 that resolved 5 more
 ... not planning to go through the list of bugs specifically
 ... acknowledge that you made progress by cutting the bugs by 1/3
 ... do you have anything specific to highlight?

acolwell: most are clarifications

<paulc> Latest update news is in  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0024.html


acolwell: seeking doesn't set things back into open so that you seeking doesn't require you to call endstream
 ... you weren't allowed to call append in the ended state - now it will transition to open and allow the append to happen
 ... for example if the app determined it had some higher quality data it could append that

paulc: there are currently 19 bugs outstanding
 ... most listed under agenda 6 and 7
 ... i'd like to propose that we handle the next agenda item as follows
 ... looking at the bugs, some of them i'd characterise as "hard" that we've been carrying for a few weeks
 ... i haven't seen any significant progress on the bugs in agenda 6
 ... high level question is how to get ready for TPAC sessions
 ... especially for work items assigned to editors or others in the group

acolwell: a bunch of things in section 6 are new features and have lower priority for me because trying to focus on clarifying existing behaviour before adding new stuff
 ... that's why these haven't made as much progress
 ... have started on remove because i think others can be specified using the remove method
 ... the TS one is one that I need to continue to read the specs

paulc: remove is bug 18709
 ... TS is bug 17094

adrianba: i'd like to propose that
 ... the editors meet to triage the current bugs
 ... and figure out the status and next action of each
 ... so that in two weeks we can work on the TPAC agenda
 ... and let people know to come to TPAC prepared to discuss concrete issues
 ... and make actual progress on the things that have been blocked

acolwell: that sounds good to me

paulc: i had mail from mark about bug 18962 - allow appending with xhr

markw: i wanted to point out that there is some work in webapps
 ... that is about adding a stream response to XHR
 ... which allows the app to lazily access data received
 ... so we should discuss if that might be a solution for this bug
 ... and if so coordinate with webapps on this to make sure it addresses the requirements we have

paulc: webapps meet on mon/tue - will you be there?

markw: i might need to go to Web & TV but will shuttle between them

<matt> adrianba: The discussion in Web Apps is partly about the proposal that MS made for stream support for XHR.

<matt> adrianba: The broader discussion is about whether that's a good solution for this or if there's a need for something else. This was mostly in the context of understanding what support there would be for chunked HTTP.

<matt> adrianba: I think the current proposal is to add at least the receive part of the MS proposal. That's the last I saw, not sure if anything specific changed in the last few days.

paulc: mark does that help?

markw: yes

paulc: other bug on action 6 and 7 is bug 17002
 ... this is SourceID to .id mapping
 ... i asked about the status in the other media group
 ... aaron followed up with some questions
 ... and that thread is continuing

<paulc>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0026.html


paulc: i think i'm going to skip to agenda 9 - any other business

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18666


adrianba: this is HTMLMediaElement.seekable

acolwell: all seekable does is to be from 0 to the duration
 ... so in the case of live, the duration would be positive infinity
 ... wait, let me look at the text
 ... in a live stream what will happen is if the duration is set to something other that +inf then seekable will be zero to the duration
 ... otherwise it will be zero to the highest time in the source buffer
 ... then the seekable will be set to the highest of what is in the buffer
 ... so you can only seek to what is in the buffer

adrianba: does that mean that the seekable range will grow as the data is being buffered, say from a URL

acolwell: yes

adrianba: that answers my question

paulc: are thinking of reopening this?

adrianba: i don't expect to reopen this - solution sounds good

pal: question on process - if i have some minor questions on the spec - how should i ask them?

paulc: depending on how many you have, you might consider sending mail to the list with the list of questions
 ... sometimes if the questions are complicated it might make sense to put one per email
 ... then you can put the question in the subject
 ... or you could open a bug
 ... my preference is option 2

pal: thank you

paulc: i think option 2 is the best approach - you might get an answer to the first before you asked the second
 ... any other business?

Chair and scribe for next meeting

paulc: i will chair, any volunteers for scribe?
 ... not hearing any one
 ... major item of discussion for next meeting will be the triage from the editors and preparing for the TPAC meeting

Adjournment

paulc: bye everyone

<strobe> thanks

Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]

------------
From: Paul Cotton 
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2012 3:11 AM
To: public-html-media@w3.org
Cc: Aaron Colwell <acolwell@google.com> (acolwell@google.com); Adrian Bateman; John Simmons; Mark Watson
Subject: {agenda} HTML WG media telecon 2012-10-09 - media source extension action and bugs

The HTML WG media teleconference meeting will occur on 2012-10-09 for up to 60 minutes from 15:00Z to 16:00Z.

http://timeanddate.com/s/29ut


Tokyo midnight, Amsterdam/Oslo 17:00, London/Dublin 16:00, New Jersey/York 11:00, Kansas City 10:00, Seattle/San Francisco 08:00.

Chair of the meeting: Paul Cotton
Scribe: TBD

(See the end of this email for dial-in and IRC info.)

== Agenda ==

1. Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe

2. Previous meeting minutes
http://www.w3.org/2012/09/25-html-media-minutes.html


3. Review of action items
https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/

Note: None currently.

4. TPAC meeting plans
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0046.html 

5. Baseline documents and Bugzilla information

a) Media Source Extensions editor's draft: 
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/media-source/media-source.html

Status as of Oct 7:  Last updated in Oct 1.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0002.html


Bug 18578 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18578>
- Removed the special handling for empty sourceBuffers in
removeSourceBuffer() algorithm since it redundant with the "not found" case.

Bug 18589 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18589>
- Updated failed attach text run the "If the media data cannot be fetched
at all ..." steps of the resource fetch algorithm.

Bug 18633 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18633>
- Fixed addsourcebuffer & removesourcebuffer event links.

Bug 18708 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18708>
- Updated append() algorithm to transition from "ended" to "open" and fire
a sourceopen event.

Bug 18634 <https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18634>
- Updated detach algorithm to only fire removesourcebuffer once when all
the SourceBuffers are removed.

- Added steps for activeSourceBuffer to detach algorithm.

- Added missing "queue a task to fire and event named ..." steps to various
steps in section 3.3.5.

b) Media Source Extension bugs: 
http://tinyurl.com/6pdnzej

Status as of Oct 7: 23 bugs 

6. Actions from previous meeting

a) Bug 18400: Define and document timestamp heuristics
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18400

Status from last meeting:  “Adrian working on this one and still pending”.

b) Bug 17000: Define a capability detection mechanism
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17000

Status from last meeting: “John and Adrian to discuss this item”.

d) Bug 17002: Specify SourceID to AudioTrack.id & VideoTrack.id mappings
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17002

Status from last meeting: “Question is still outstanding and we will have to track this”.
No progress on the HTML5 bug:
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18971


e) Bug 17006: <track> Setting track language & kind when the information is in a manifest
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17006

Status from last meeting: “Aaron will continue to do research on 17006”.

f) Bug 17094: Define segment formats for MPEG2-TS
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17094

Status from last meeting: Lots of discussion.  Latest email containing Q&A is at:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0050.html 

g) [Bug 18962] New: Allow appending with XHR
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18962

[Bug 18963] New: Provide a mechanism for rate limiting appending
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18963

Status from previous meeting:  Discussion but no conclusions on these two new bugs.

h) [Bug 18920] New: addSourceBuffer parameter type should be optional
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18920

Status from previous meeting: Several people indicated support for early failure.

i) [Bug 18709]  Add SourceBuffer.remove() method
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18709

Status from previous meeting:  Support for proposed change.

j) [Bug 18601] Contradictory requirements for initialization segments
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18601 
Status from previous meeting: “I think we may want to wait until we decide what we will do about MPEG2 TS”.

7.  Recent bugs for discussion

a) [Bug 18921] New: append(data) should accept any part of media segment
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18921


b) [Bug 18922] New: Add a parser free, codec agnostic example
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18922 

c) [Bug 18933] New: Segment byte boundaries are not defined
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18933 

d) [Bug 19300] New: Remove transition from "ended" to "open" on seek
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Oct/0016.html 

8. Other bugs for discussion

9. Other Business

10. Chair and Scribe for next meeting

11. Adjournment

== Dial-in and IRC Details ==

Zakim teleconference bridge:
   +1.617.761.6200, conference 63342 ("media")
https://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_5366


Supplementary IRC chat (logged):
   #html-media on irc.w3.org port 6665 or port 80


Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329

ID▲ 
Opened▲ 
Changed▼ 
Sev 
Pri▲ 
OS 
Assignee▲ 
Status▲ 
Resolution 
Summary 
17000 
2012-05-08 
2012-06-05 
nor 
P3 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Define a capability detection mechanism 
17002 
2012-05-08 
2012-09-25 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Specify a mechanism to determine which SourceBuffer an AudioTrack,VideoTrack, or TextTrack belong to. 
17006 
2012-05-08 
2012-06-05 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
<track> Setting track language & kind when the information is in a manifest 
17094 
2012-05-18 
2012-09-07 
nor 
P2 
All 
b.lund@cablelabs.com 
ASSI 
--- 
Define segment formats for MPEG2-TS 
18400 
2012-07-25 
2012-08-14 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
watsonm@netflix.com 
ASSI 
--- 
Define and document timestamp heuristics 
18575 
2012-08-15 
2012-08-20 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Section 2. Source Buffer Model should be non-normative 
18587 
2012-08-16 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
acolwell@chromium.org 
ASSI 
--- 
Define clearly what data is removed when setting an explicit duration 
18590 
2012-08-16 
2012-08-16 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Firing an event is sometimes missing a target and "queue a task" 
18592 
2012-08-16 
2012-09-19 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
How much is "enough data to ensure uninterrupted playback" 
18601 
2012-08-17 
2012-08-17 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
acolwell@chromium.org 
ASSI 
--- 
Contradictory requirements for initialization segments 
18615 
2012-08-17 
Fri 18:01 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Define how SourceBuffer.buffered maps to HTMLMediaElement.buffered 
18635 
2012-08-21 
2012-08-21 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
HTMLMediaElement seeking algorithm integration 
18642 
2012-08-21 
2012-09-21 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Handle timestamp overflow in append(data) 
18666 
2012-08-23 
2012-09-17 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Define what HTMLMediaElement.seekable returns 
18709 
2012-08-27 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Add SourceBuffer.remove() method 
18920 
2012-09-19 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
addSourceBuffer parameter type should be optional 
18921 
2012-09-19 
2012-09-22 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
append(data) should accept any part of media segment 
18922 
2012-09-19 
2012-09-20 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Add a parser free, codec agnostic example 
18933 
2012-09-20 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
All 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Segment byte boundaries are not defined 
18960 
2012-09-21 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Define how AudioTrack.id & VideoTrack.id are generated 
18962 
2012-09-21 
2012-09-27 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Allow appending with XHR 
18963 
2012-09-21 
2012-09-24 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
adrianba@microsoft.com 
NEW 
--- 
Provide a mechanism for rate limiting appending 
19300 
Fri 18:28 
Fri 18:28 
nor 
P2 
Linu 
acolwell@chromium.org 
ASSI 
--- 
Remove transition from "ended" to "open" on seek 
23 bugs found.

Received on Tuesday, 9 October 2012 17:23:28 UTC