{minutes} HTML Media telecon 2012-10-02

The minutes from today teleconference are available here:
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/02-html-media-minutes.html,text

or in plain text below:

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                  HTML Media Task Force Teleconference

02 Oct 2012

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/02-html-media-irc

Attendees

   Present  Aaron_Colwell BobLund Clarke Microsoft MikeSmith adrianba ddorwin glenn joesteele johnsim-msft markw matt pal strobe

   Regrets
   Chair
          johnsim-msft
   Scribe
          joesteele

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Review action items
     * [5]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 02 October 2012

   <johnsim-msft> 2. Previous meeting minutes on Sep 18
   [6]http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-html-media-minutes.html

      [6] http://www.w3.org/2012/09/18-html-media-minutes.html

   <scribe> ScribeNick: joesteele

Review action items

   <johnsim-msft> [7]https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/

      [7] https://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/

   <johnsim-msft>
   [8]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682

      [8] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682

   johnsim-msft: propose a solution to the clear key bug, did add
   a comment a few minutes ago bug#17682
   ... some others we could discuss as well

   <johnsim-msft> [9]http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo

      [9] http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo

   johnsim-msft: no analysis yet on closing these bugs

   Title: HTML-Media

   <scribe> Meeting: HTML Media Extensions

   <johnsim-msft>
   [10]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
   container guidelines
   [11]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682 clear
   key [12]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19208
   keymessage event not needed
   [13]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19156
   switching decoders

     [10] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
     [11] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682
     [12] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19208
     [13] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19156

   johnsim: container guidelines bug
   ... I had an action item on this.
   ... new bug coming on ISO based media file formats should have
   stronger guidelines when a CDM has a key in it storage

   ddorwin: no preference on order

   johnsim: starting with container guidelines bug

   … exchanged some email on this and added to the bug

   <scribe> … new bug is 19208

   johnsim: this is specific to the COmmon Encryption Format
   specification
   ... please read the bug online
   ... this is the proposed language for the ISOBMFF guidelines

   … captures enough of how to detect encryption and extract the
   metadata needed from those files

   … does raise some issues about initialization and events

   … there are cases where the CDM does not need to issue a key
   message event

   … any comments or concerns, David?

   ddorwin: no comments

   johnsim: next bug is bug#17682 (clear key bug)

   … documents how keys and key ids are associated

   <BobLund> mute

   … added a brief comment to the end of the spec

   <BobLund> mute me

   johnsim: how clear key works should be the same as the CDM
   ... should be defined by the W3C since this is strictly a W3C
   concept

   … data blob specific to CDM is in the spec, in the case of
   clear key just a key

   … need to define how clearKey is initialized or any media
   format is supported

   … propose some draft language based on some email traffic to be
   sent to general rflector

   johnsim: need to add language for other formats

   ddorwin: for ClearKey specific stuff, and ISO, nothing to
   define just a keyid

   … for other containers need to define

   … this is part#1 of the bug, part#2 is the license

   … this is the harder part, need to define key/keyid pairing

   johnsim: there have been some proposals out there
   ... do you mean a defined data structure like a license being
   passed down?

   ddorwin: yes

   … in the old version for WebM has a simple definition but this
   has been removed

   … need a license to provide more than one key

   markw: need to say how do we support more than one key at a
   time?

   ddorwin: want clearKey to be as capable as other CDMs to use
   for prototyping

   … maybe use JSON or something

   johnsim: we are talking about the analog to a license for
   clearKey, requirement is that is be capable of communicating
   more than one key/keyID pair

   … I am a little hazy on that

   … init data would have to report more than one

   ddorwin: nothing that says you can't have more than one keyid

   johnsim: keyed is really a meta-key which tells the server to
   deliver more than one key at once

   ddorwin: might need to be base64-encoded JSON but moves a
   little away from original spirit

   johnsim: some work on this in the webCrypto group

   <ddorwin> where the spirit was to be able to easily specify a
   key in JS

   markw: you mean how keys are encoded? we just specify an
   arrayBuffer of the raw bytes at this point

   johnsim: so this action item is still open. Need to propose
   license structure for clearKey
   ... should we move on?
   ... jumping to switching decoders bug #19156

   … has been some discussion but no replies yet

   ddorwin: unlike clearKey some CDMs will include decoders and/or
   rendering pipelines

   … this means you may be picking a decoder by picking a CDM

   … this may cause a switch in the decoder being used

   … what should we do in that case?

   … should we spec it away?

   aaron: should not spec it away at this point

   … could be implementation

   johnsim: could have portions encrypted and some not

   aaron: thinking of the case where content comes from multiple
   files

   johnsim: the metadata would be from different files in this
   case?

   aaron: starting with unencrypted file and moving to encrypted
   file, should not cause decoding to stop

   ddorwin: need to specify the decoder up front

   … how does media source handle this?

   … currently only one key system allowed per media element

   markw: currently decoder is not allowed to change
   ... prefer not to prevent it for now if possible
   ... will comment on the bug

   s: /markw: will comment/aaron: will comment/

   aaron: as long as you are only switching during media segment
   boundaries, should avoid this problem

   Aaron_Colwell: could have the CDM disable encryption when clear
   frames comes through

   markw: you need the CDM to be able to handle this already

   this is an issue for ad-insertion

   <markw> my point was just that (i) the CDM should be able to
   cope with unencrypted samples and (ii) the first encrypted
   sample and all subsequent samples must not depend on any
   samples before the first encrypted sample

   johnsim: so we will add comments to the thread on this?

   ddorwin: will reply with what I heard

   johnsim: moving to bug#19208

   … based on the container guideline bug

   … came across a case where the keyMessage event might not be
   needed

   … David pointed out this contradicts the spec

   … bug is -- if a session is created which activates a CDM, and
   key storage already has a key, no need for a keyMessage event

   … David, what do you think?

   ddorwin: does not violate the spirit of the spec

   … but we might need to change the text of the algorithm (BMFF
   text)

   johnsim: you don't disagree then

   ddorwin: don't have any objections, but would like feedback and
   thought
   ... calling createSession would not cause a message to the app,
   which is a little strange

   johnsim: had discussions about the event corresponding to a key
   successfully being extracted

   … is the a need for that event (e.g. a null-key messages)

   ddorwin: we have KEYERROR we could add a
   ALREADY_HAVE_A_LICENSE_ERROR

   … createSession could return a reference to an existing session
   - need to think about that more

   … would not matter so much whether you got another message then

   johnsim: any other thoughts on this issue?
   ... going back to the list of open bugs

   <ddorwin>
   [14]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18531

     [14] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18531

   johnsim: renaming addKey

   <ddorwin>
   [15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012S
   ep/0045.html

     [15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Sep/0045.html

   markw: there was a couple of suggestions -- update() was the
   only one commented on
   ... would suggest we go with that

   joesteele: I like update()

   ddorwin: only concern is that in the general case we are adding
   a license

   johnsim: you are really adding things -- more than an update

   markw: update() means providing more information

   <ddorwin> [16]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/update

     [16] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/update

   johnsim; connotation of providing entirely different
   information and adding values

   <ddorwin> [17]http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/update

     [17] http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/update

   johnsim: there are quite a few open bugs

   <ddorwin> transitive verb: to bring up to date

   johnsim: what is the status for the open bugs?

   <johnsim-msft> [18]http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo

     [18] http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo

   joesteele: I did not get to the example I was to do.

   [19]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16540

     [19] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16540

   johnsim: are folks attending the TPAC meeting?

   ddorwin: yes I will be

   joesteele: I am not going at this point

   johnsim: encourage everyone on the call with open bugs to
   resolve or start a thread on these bugs ASAP

   … want to reach closure at TPAC or before if possible

   ddorwin: many are editorial

   johnsim: would be great to pull out the substantial bugs

   … design questions, etc

   … any that sit at the top of the list as needs resolving?

   ddorwin: the clearKey bug must be resolved

   <adrianba> we don't have to close every bug - we need to ensure
   the document covers the desired scope before we ask for FPWD

   ddorwin: needKey is another one

   johnsim: which is the needKey?

   ddorwin: will try to get the other bug I need to file out

   … and send an email

   ddorwin: no major changes to the spec in these bugs

   johnsim: concern about the specs fitting together?
	… new segments from other key systems, etc.

   ddorwin: MSE is another source for the URL should work
   together, might need to discuss advanced use cases
   
   markw: will scribe for next meeting

   ddorwin: TPAC is on the 29th

   johnsim: next EME call will be the last one before the TPAC
   ... would like to discuss how we can use the TPAC to advance
   the spec on the next call
   ... would like to resolve as many bugs as possible before than
   as well
   ... David the issues you raised we should really resolve
   ... raises our chances of coming out with a good draft
   ... pretty much done

   joesteele: bye all

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
Joe Steele
steele@adobe.com

Received on Tuesday, 2 October 2012 16:06:51 UTC