- From: Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 06:23:11 +0300
- To: Paul Ellis <paul@ellisfoundation.com>
- Cc: Daniel Hendrycks <kondo8@hotmail.com>, "public-html-comments@w3.org" <public-html-comments@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <AANLkTikeHknqgR-sP7l69Cdd10WhAzjlFEtx5UNuov2p@mail.gmail.com>
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Paul Ellis <paul@ellisfoundation.com>wrote: > Any solution that requires creating another window and opening a new > document would create a lot of issues that would not compare favorably with > any current popular web video plugin (Flash, Silverlight, etc). It would not > be a very seemless transition. The <video> resource from the parent page may > have downloaded hundreds of MB of data and then the new window would make a > new separate request for the same resource. Certainly the browsers could try > to aggressively cache video content for these situations but even that > wouldn't work in all cases (any HTTP connection that doesn't allow byte > range requests, e.g. HTTP 1.0), and it probably would not work very well for > resource constrained devices such as smartphones and tablets. This type of > hand-off would have to happen every time the user switched between > fullscreen and embedded mode as well. > Just add an attribute called "source" to the <video> tag, which accepts the ID of another <video> tag to display. This is just one of many possible solutions to the reloading problem. There is no need to reload a video twice. > I think the goal should be to enable a way for the current browsing/viewing > session to change context into a "fullscreen" mode. This fullscreen context > still needs to support all of the typical HTML elements for things like > custom video player controls. > But why would you need to reorganize a whole page just to display a simple video? Unless you would have attributes regarding what happens in fullscreen mode and what doesn't, like Daniel's idea. > My thinking is that there should be some DOM attribute that would toggle a > chromeless/fullscreen browsing state similar to Firefox's read-only > window.fullscreen. The display of the page content including the video would > be controlled/determined using CSS/JavaScript. The "SublimeVideo HTML5 Video > Player" (http://jilion.com/sublime/video) is a great example of this type > of player. This fullscreen viewing is experience is very comparable to > current video plug-ins. All that is missing is that it can not remove the > browser chrome. Some work would have to happen to keep this from being > abused but that type of problem has already been solved in Flash and > Silverlight and similar rules (e.g. users must initiate the fullscreen mode) > would apply. > > Letting a page take over a screen is very problematic in terms of security. You would probably need explicit permission for that using some kind of alert. I completely agree that an attribute such as "window.fullscreen" should be made writable to allow the current page to expand to the whole screen, but for purposes of opening a new window with new content based on the parent window, there are better solutions. > Thoughts? > > Paul Ellis > > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jpaulellis> > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I haven't noticed such a tag already exists for window.open. >> True fullscreen support needs to be added, for better hardware level >> support, such as other windowless plugins including Flash and Silverlight. >> The current fullscreen tag only maximizes the window. >> >> Maybe a tag called maximize can be added, to better define fullscreen >> mode. For example, maximize="borderless" will enable fullscreen with no >> borders, and maximize="hardware" will switch to hardware fullscreen mode. >> This mode could even turn the width and height attributes to specify and >> control hardware level resolution of the screen, instead of window >> dimensions. >> >> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> The correct design would be to use a window-less application for desktop >>> applications, which then spawn windows using standard javascript and DOM >>> (window.open function). >>> >>> http://www.pageresource.com/jscript/jwinopen.htm >>> >>> <http://www.pageresource.com/jscript/jwinopen.htm>Attributes such as >>> width, height, scrollbars, toolbars, status bar, menubar, etc can be set. >>> >>> Adding an attribute "fullscreen=yes" could enable you to open a >>> fullscreen window easily, using the currently implemented javascript >>> support. That way, you won't need to reconsider the implicatoins such a tag >>> has. >>> >>> Adding to your proposition, I suggest doing the opposite (which will >>> eventually lead to the correct design of your idea) and adding a seperate >>> DOCTYPE tag attribute called a "windowless application". >>> >>> Examples: >>> <!DOCTYPE WLHTML> >>> <!DOCTYPE HTML windowless="true"> >>> >>> Since the DOCTYPE tag must be the first tag in an HTML document, browsers >>> could open window-less applications without a window, and allow such web >>> applications to use the standard javascript API to spawn windows. >>> >>> With the addition of a fullscreen tag, one could configure a desktop >>> application to open a web application directly in fullscreen mode. >>> >>> This capability enables HTML5 to be more flexible than any browser based >>> plugin in the world. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:28 AM, Daniel Hendrycks <kondo8@hotmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:58:29 -0600, Ron Reiter <ron.reiter@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I do think there is room for proposing tags for desktop applications >>>> >>>> I am proposing this for HTML5, which is rendered by desktop >>>> applications. I cannot really understand what you are saying, if you don't >>>> want HTML5 to interact with the device, then that is quite contrary to >>>> things that are in drafts for HTML5. Today, HTML Media Capture went in a >>>> draft phase, that interacts with the device; that could be a security >>>> concern, too (you mentioned security as an issue for the tag, earlier). >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-html-media-capture-20100720/ >>>> >>>> "This puts HTML in direct competition with other technologies intended >>>> for applications deployed over the Web, in particular Flash and >>>> Silverlight." -Ian Hickson >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jan/0215.html >>>> >>>> As you can see, HTML5 is in competition with plug-ins, plug-ins can go >>>> in fullscreen. YouTube said HTML is not ready for YouTube, one of the >>>> reasons stated was: "HD video begs to be watched in full screen, but that >>>> has not historically been possible with pure HTML." >>>> >>>> There is a need for Fullscreen, I believe the syntax I gave is simple >>>> enough to make it possible. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Daniel Hendrycks <http://my.opera.com/DanielHendrycks/> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- Ron >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- Ron >> > > -- -- Ron
Received on Wednesday, 21 July 2010 03:23:45 UTC