- From: Mark Sadecki <mark.sadecki@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2015 12:19:45 -0400
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAOego5Mkqa2mbBs9dYiP0h7_W5hTRLsCfeFiuxgzy6e_=say8g@mail.gmail.com>
The minutes for the HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference held on 1
October 2015 are available in HTML and plain text below:
HTML:
http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html
TEXT:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
01 Oct 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
janina, LJWatson, ShaneM, chaals, LJWatson], bkardell_,
Judy, IanPouncey, MarkS, plh, liam, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Regrets
Chair
chaals
Scribe
MarkS
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Agenda Edits & Additions
2. [5]"we expect to get another month"
3. [6]MAUR Update - Janina
4. [7]TPAC Planning
5. [8]Web Payments Followup
6. [9]Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam
7. [10]Drag & Drop: Does it work? Chaals
8. [11]Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al
9. [12]TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 01 October 2015
<janina> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force
Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 01 October 2015
Agenda Edits & Additions
"we expect to get another month"
<chaals> CMN: we expect to have a one month extension to the
HTML group, so we can worry about the future at TPAC…
<chaals> JB: expect APA to happen within that timeframe too…
<scribe> scribe: MarkS
JS: FYI, we published LCWD last fall. We received several good
comments and handled most of them in the Spring.
... just now got around to responding to commenters
... hope to get Note published before TPAC
... who publishes is unknown.
CMN: anything controversial? perhaps we should start a Call for
consensus next week.
JS: that is a good idea. I will follow through on that.
<ShaneM> +1 on a CfC
<chaals> ACTION: janina to start a CfC to publish MAUR as a
note [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
1]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-335 - Start a cfc to publish maur as
a note [on Janina Sajka - due 2015-10-08].
MAUR Update - Janina
<chaals> [agenda:
[15]http://www.w3.org/mid/20151001003822.GL1737@opera.rednote.n
et ]
[15] http://www.w3.org/mid/20151001003822.GL1737@opera.rednote.net
TPAC Planning
CMN: we asked people to be at TPAC. There is a slot for various
group who may or may not exist
... who will be there and available second half of the week.
<LJWatson> Available on Friday.
<janina> I'll be there
MarkS is a maybe
<liam> [I'll be there all week]
<IanPouncey> I won't be there
<chaals> [I expect to have conflicts for TPAC - Web
platform/AC/AB]
<Judy> I'll be there
<ShaneM> I will be there but web payments is meeting thursday
friday so... I will be at that a lot
<plh> I'll be divided between rooms as usual
<LJWatson> Friday pending Web Platforms stuff.
JS: I will be chairing PF Thur and Fri
CMN: If you have not registered, you should do that right away
PLH: hotels are filling up!
Web Payments Followup
JS: looking for recruits for a User Req. doc for this.
... so far, me, JF, Shane volunteered to be editor.
... I have a commitment to strip the MAUR to everything related
to Media to use as a base document for Web Payments.
... hope to do before TPAC
CMN: given that payments is not HTML, but another WG, should
this be something between APA and WP?
JS: good idea
... most of us are going to be in APA
SM: I'm in WP as well
Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam
JS: Did not get a chance to bring this up in PF yesterday.
... will be asking WCAG to review language. Need a close review
from expert reviewers. As many as we can put on the draft.
... then we will follow bugs against HTML spec, and hopefully
get into HTML5.1 draft
<chaals> [16]Alt doc draft
[16] https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/
Drag & Drop: Does it work? Chaals
CMN: this is a question that came from ARIA stuff. Whether or
not D&D works in ARIA or in HTML. Do we have a special ARIA
version, or should ARIA deprecate and building it right into
HTML
... up to people who have implementation support to say which
they think is the best solution.
IP: I've had a very hard time to get it to work.
... lots and lots of JS. This is just HTML attempt
<liam> [D&D unsupported on touch devices]
BK: and its unsupported in touch as well, correct?
<Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to say Jaws has lost support for
ARIA drag/drop somewhere between v11 and v17.
RS: We have decided to deprecate what we have in ARIA 1.1. We
would like to depend on whatever HTML can support and then add
any missing pieces in ARIA.next
JS: about two years ago, we looked into this and there were
serious discussions on this, around what it would take. Should
probably have that again
LW: JAWS 11 used to support ARIA D&D, but somewhere along the
way, support was lost. I have filed bugs. No idea when this
happened.
... you can tell which elements could be grabbed, but issuing
commands to grab it were not accessible.
... filed bugs with Freedom Scientific
... will share with you
<chaals> ACTION: chaals to explain the IME / cententeditable
issue in email [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
2]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-336 - Explain the ime /
cententeditable issue in email [on Charles McCathie Nevile -
due 2015-10-08].
<bkardell_> can everyone check that they a muted there's
frequently a skipping echo making it a little hard to hear - or
is that just for me?
CMN: people working on this are interested in something called
ContentEditable = typing. That will include using IMEs, like
what we use when you want to input non standard characters
<bkardell_> liam: seems to be helping to me
CMN: none of the people working on that had not Assistive
Technology experience.
... looking for anyone with Chinese Japanese or Korean
experience
... Javascript RTE component in a web page, like TInyMCE,
CKEditor, etc.
... knowledge of how these work as well as AT experience
<chaals> ACTION: chaals to add contenteditable and IME issues
to TPAC agenda [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
3]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-337 - Add contenteditable and ime
issues to tpac agenda [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due
2015-10-08].
JS: this should be something we should talk about at TPAC.
there may be experts there. Lots of participation for Japanese,
Chinese and Korean people
JB: There will be people from Korea and China there that are
interested in working on this.
Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al
CMN: can you send an email? make introductions?
<plh> sorry
JB: because of progress on APA and ARIA, etc. we are having
lots of confusion about scheduling
CMN: likely early in the week to talk about this.
JB: maybe you can get a separate email out to coordinate
BK: Leonie and I met up and tried to make a habit of getting
editors together for a quick standup to keep this moving
forward. Two actions items. 1 to write a easier to understand
intro to the spec. trying to get that out there to get regular
users involved.
... 2. I will sync up with Polymer devs. They are busy at the
moment. They have some existing functionality that is lower
level than what we are designing, but could be used to drive
momentum.
... interesting because they have access to browser
implementer.
... tricky to get people to use it because of the lack of
shadow DOM that can be styled, etc.
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to add scope creep to tabpanels
BK: we did this with input modality work as well (easy to
understand description) and it was successful
CMN: this would have more success if it replaced
details/summary
<chaals> [19]a chemistry diagram in SVG
[19] http://svg-access-w3cg.github.io/use-case-examples/chem-BV-ox.svg
CMN: I was playing around with a chemistry diagram, and
thinking about how you could navigate around and this is pretty
much like an expandable tree. The tree itself is always
visible. Then it occurred to me that the same metaphor, nested
tab panels, applied here as well.
... would tab panels be able to handle this use case?
... having a native object, like a tab panel, would be much
better than complex JS navigation.
BK: this came up in my organization as well. On mobile, when
you have a hamburger navigation, you want something accordion
like, but sometimes its nested. Is that a tree? can you next
panel sets?
... there were some concerns about i18n, concerns that
panel/title should be an element of its own.
... what worried me about that was that it would be unclear on
to navigate this.
... tabs in your OS cannot contain form fields, but panelsets
can, so theoretically this is possible.
... the element that can be expanded/collapsed is frequently a
link on its own. There is a lot of overlap here.
CMN: to go back to SVG a11y TF, just the navigation, is there a
sense of what the metaphor for navigation is.
... open question. won't get an answer today, or even this
week. but something to consider.
... SVG sorta had this solved, but they are trying to come up
with a better solution.
RS: looking at this diagram, are you looking to reveal content?
CMN: the diagram has 4 blocks, initial chemicals, then a
transformation, then changes, then transformation, etc. Would
like to enable people to start in initial ketone and then give
them the ability to go to any step in the process wihtout going
through all transformations.
... I'm thinking purely about focus navigation.
BK: so each phase in this would be a panel, with a title. then
you could skip between the things, then drill down when you
want.
... same navigation requirement as panels. not visually, just
navigationally
<ShaneM> This feels like a hack to me.
SM: you can solve any problem by adding a layer of abstraciton,
but pretending something is a tab when it isn't...
CMN: I'm talking about interaction behavior.
being able to apply that to trees, etc.
BK: the spec doesn't use the work TAB, it uses panel and panel
set.
... in ARIA, they are TABS.
LW: the semantics are limiting.
... the only ARIA we can use TAB/TABLIST/TABPANEL
... and that is not the semantics we want in HTML
... we are focusing on PANEL at this point.
CMN: lets get a human readable explanation ;)
RS: lets discuss this at TPAC
CS: would love to talk about web components too
RS: probably schedule something Mon - Tues at TPAC. trying to
schedule with Chaals
LW: nothing to report.
CMN: any other business?
no
TF Open Actions [20]http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
[20] http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
CMN: all open actions are on Me and Cynthia, one on PLH which
is now complete.
<chaals> close action-332
<trackbot> Closed action-332.
CMN: I did this.
... 329
<chaals> action-329?
<trackbot> action-329 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Take up
"media descriptions" topic in the tf -- due 2015-07-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/329
[21] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/329
CMN: transcript and describing a poster. No real solutions for
these. Everything else has a mechanism.
... Was brought up in TF, everyone agreed
<chaals> close action-329
<trackbot> Closed action-329.
CMN: rest of mine are outstanding.
<chaals> action-324 on ljwatson
<chaals> close action-330
<trackbot> Closed action-330.
OBE
<chaals> action-226 to ljwatson
to bug steve
cyns and LW to meet next week
<chaals> action-318 due in 10 days
<trackbot> Set action-318 Work with léonie on describing the
extensions requested to web driver, and the motivation… due
date to 2015-10-11.
OBE
<chaals> close action-274
<trackbot> Closed action-274.
not going to do it
RS: can we meet with Web Apps/Web Components on Monday?
CMN: there is a wiki page for the meeting
... i will share link
... then you can scheduleyourself in
<chaals> [22]Webapps tpac meeting page
[22] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/October2015Meeting
CMN: web apps sets the agenda each morning.
RS: we need an hour
[adjourned]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: chaals to add contenteditable and IME issues to
TPAC agenda [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
3]
[NEW] ACTION: chaals to explain the IME / cententeditable issue
in email [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
2]
[NEW] ACTION: janina to start a CfC to publish MAUR as a note
[recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
1]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version
1.140 ([27]CVS log)
$Date: 2015/10/01 15:54:33 $
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[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30
Check for newer version at [28]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
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[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Found Scribe: MarkS
Inferring ScribeNick: MarkS
Present: janina LJWatson ShaneM chaals LJWatson] bkardell_ Judy IanPounc
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Found Date: 01 Oct 2015
Guessing minutes URL: [29]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes
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People with action items: chaals janina
[29] http://www.w3.org/2015/10/01-html-a11y-minutes.html
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Received on Thursday, 1 October 2015 16:20:35 UTC