- From: David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca>
- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 15:37:26 -0500
- To: "'Steve Faulkner'" <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- CC: "'Gunderson, Jon R'" <jongund@illinois.edu>, "'Alastair Campbell'" <acampbell@nomensa.com>, "'Joshue O Connor'" <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>, "'HTML Accessibility Task Force'" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, <kirsten@can-adapt.com>, <kirsten@can-adapt.com>
- Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP98577A57D5C37BCA626581FEBC0@phx.gbl>
Hi Steve >Hi dave, >thanks for doing the testing. >Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6 Given that it's not accessibility supported right now I think we need to wait before we provide a WCAG sufficient technique using figcaption. It appears that the assistive technology companies and the browsers have looked at figcaption and made a decision on it. For instance the figure is not read as such. It only reads the caption and ignores the figure so you don't even know that a figure is there. I kind of wish they hadn't done anything to it so we could hope that it would be implemented correctly soon. This could turn into a long-term accessibility support issue, we’ve seen this kind of thing before... A déjà vu by longdesc? I hope not. Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Tel: 613.235.4902 <http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100 <http://www.can-adapt.com/> www.Can-Adapt.com Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities This e-mail originates from CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. Le présent courriel a été expédié par CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. From: Steve Faulkner [mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] Sent: January 13, 2014 3:07 PM To: David MacDonald Cc: Gunderson, Jon R; Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor; w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; HTML Accessibility Task Force; kirsten@can-adapt.com Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt Hi dave, thanks for doing the testing. Note i never claimed that it worked currently as stated in http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/#m6 -- Regards SteveF HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> On 13 January 2014 19:47, David MacDonald <david100@sympatico.ca> wrote: A couple of corrections. Dragon NaturallySpeaking misspeaks Hi Steve I've done some testing with a simple image. <http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html> http://davidmacd.com/test/figure.html It is a simple image inside the figure tag with placeholder text in the figcaption. -Jaws with Internet Explorer and Firefox: : it read the text of the figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there was a graphic on the page. The Jaws key "G" to read the next graphic does not work because Jaws does not appear to recognize as a graphic. -NVDA with Internet Explorer and Firefox: it read the text of the figcaption but did not announce a figure and did not recognize that there was a graphic on the page. The key "G" to read the next graphic does not work because NVDA does not appear to recognize it as a graphic. -Safari in Maverick: does not recognize the figure element and just says “group”, then an empty image and the text afterwards as if it was a paragraph as if there was no relationship between the legend and the graphic. -Aviewer and IE: screenshot below... I guess it shows up as a group the image has not reported Accname. So API seems to only report the content of the figcaption when the figcaption as focus. Discussion: I'm really struggling to figure out where I stand on all of this because the ways things are being reported right now in a Windows environment does not really allow the screener user to even know that there is a figure there. It just reads a text of the figcaption without announcing that it's a figure. In Safari it does announce as a group. It's hard to tell when the group ends. It just simply has a graphic without an alternative and then the next time the person arrows down they get the figcaption which doesn't appear to be a programmatic association except for the word “group” before the item. VoiceOver screen reader users will have to get themselves acclimatized to this new type of group. But all in all I'm quite disappointed with the way it works. It almost seems like this belongs in that larger discussion about accessible names and alternative text. Right now it seems there's more success with some of the other nonstandard alternatives than with figcaption. Which makes it difficult to say this is okay and the others are not. I'm really committed to unity between HTML5 and WCAG, but reticent to create a technique that is sufficient using figcaption right now. And I'm wondering what others think. SNAGHTML226329 Cheers, David MacDonald CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Tel: 613.235.4902 <http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davidmacdonald100 <http://www.can-adapt.com/> www.Can-Adapt.com Adapting the web to all users Including those with disabilities This e-mail originates from CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify me at the telephone number shown above or by return e-mail and delete this communication and any copy immediately. Thank you. Le présent courriel a été expédié par CanAdapt Solutions Inc. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son destinataire prévu est interdite. Si vous avez reçu le message par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser par téléphone (au numéro précité) ou par courriel, puis supprimer sans délai la version originale de la communication ainsi que toutes ses copies. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration. From: Steve Faulkner [ <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com> mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com] Sent: January 13, 2014 9:58 AM To: Gunderson, Jon R Cc: Alastair Campbell; Joshue O Connor; <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt Hi Jon, you have asked me this question before :-) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2013Feb/0093.html -- Regards SteveF HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> On 13 January 2014 14:54, Gunderson, Jon R <jongund@illinois.edu> wrote: Steve, What are the proposed accessibility API mapping for FIGURE and FIGCAPTION elements? Is the FIGURE the same as an IMG element, where FIGCAPTION has the same role as the ALT attribute? Jon From: Steve Faulkner [mailto: <mailto:faulkner.steve@gmail.com> faulkner.steve@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 13, 2014 5:50 AM To: Alastair Campbell Cc: Joshue O Connor; <mailto:w3c-wai-gl@w3.org> w3c-wai-gl@w3.org Subject: Re: [html-techs-tf] caption vs alt On 13 January 2014 11:42, Alastair Campbell < <mailto:acampbell@nomensa.com> acampbell@nomensa.com> wrote: I seem to remember there was a big discussion about whether @alt should be required for HTML5, which is a similar issue. I'm not sure what the outcome was, has that been decided and written down somewhere? there is one case where an alt attribute is not required: <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a -text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#when-a- text-alternative-is-not-available-at-the-time-of-publication -- Regards SteveF <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/> HTML 5.1
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