W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > April 2014

Minutes: HTML-A11Y Task Force, 24 April 2014

From: Adrian Roselli <Roselli@algonquinstudios.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:09:07 +0000
To: "HTML Accessibility Task Force (public-html-a11y@w3.org)" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-ID: <0CB063710346B446A5B5DC305BF8EA3E2E17006E@Ex2010MBX.development.algonquinstudios.com>
(I have been told I am getting good at keeping minutes. ANY complaints welcome.)

The minutes for today's TF call are online:

Text version (http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-html-a11y-minutes.html,text):

              HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

24 Apr 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/24-html-a11y-irc


          janina, Mark_Sadecki, Adrian_Roselli, IanPouncey, Sam,
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger, BillyGregory, LJWatson,
          Suzanne_Taylor, David_MacDonald




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Identify Scribe
         2. [5]Alt Guidance & Next Steps
         3. [6]Table Summary Issues Redux
         4. [7]Longdesc CfC
         5. [8]Alt Guidance & Next Steps
         6. [9]Longdesc CfC
         7. [10]Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps
         8. [11]Table Summary Issues Redux
         9. [12]Bug Triage
        10. [13]Table Summary Issues Redux
        11. [14]Our HTML 5.1 Objectives
     * [15]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 24 April 2014

   <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference

Identify Scribe

     [16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List


     [17] http://fae20-dev.cita.illinois.edu/all-pages/1458e3b98b6fd0a8/page/1/rc/1/

   <scribe> scribe: aardrian

Alt Guidance & Next Steps

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0062.html

   JS: I think we are closing on remaining tweaks to SF's guidance
   doc before asking HTMLWG to move it forward as a Note.

   <MarkS> [19]New Draft of Standalone ALT guidance

     [19] http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html

   <MarkS> [20]Feedback from David MacDonald

     [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0063.html

   JS: SF announced changes on list, got feedback from two people
   not on call today.
   ... We believe language is good as is, dno't believe anything
   left to do in spec guidance itself...
   ... But there are some tweaks in the Using Alt document.
   ... Please look at it so we can close on it ASAP.

   LW: Tangentially related, DM has identified bugs against alt
   text doc and HTML5 spec.

   JS: SF asked DM to take comments into Bugzilla, was not aware
   also filed against spec.


     [21] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25404

Table Summary Issues Redux

Longdesc CfC

   <MarkS> [22]Results of Longdesc Exit Criteria CfC (passes)

     [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0072.html

   MS: That is a link to results of CR Exit Criteria.

   JS: Chaals suggesting both parent working groups sign off on
   this, I will take up in PF.
   ... Don't expect any surprises.

   MS: Our Exit Criteria mirror HTMLWG Exit Criteria, don't expect
   any problems, will start necessary documentation.

   JS: One clarification I made to Paul, so no one is surprised...
   ... When looking at HTML criteria for sufficiency of
   implementation, most support is in AT, not necessarily in
   ... Success of good service delivery relies on AT
   implementation, not just UA support.

Alt Guidance & Next Steps

     [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Apr/0062.html

   DM: No longdesc in Alt Guidance, so issue of discoverability.
   ... There should be some reference in the alt text for where to
   find the longdesc when not programmatically associated.

   SF: I'll review it; sounds reasonable.

   <MarkS> [24]Bugs from David

     [24] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25404

   JS: Just want to note that references to geography on the
   screen may not be a good fit.

   SF: May suggest a method to identify a relationship, such as a
   grouping container.

   <MarkS> AR: in know ARIA is a different spec, but should we
   reference ARIA?

   <MarkS> ...in the ALT document, referencing a long description.
   Should there be a link out to ARIA to how to programatically
   associate it

   <MarkS> SF: The standalone doc is now in parity with the HTML5
   ALT guidance. In the HTML spec, it does talk about using ARIA
   roles,so that might work as well.

   JS: Because this is a recent addition to the spec languge, we
   requested a landing page pointer from the spec.
   ... The point of the landing page is because we are expecting
   all sorts of additional related documentation.


     [25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content.html#alt

   <SteveF> updated alt guidance

     [26] http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html

   SF: Also note that the same text is in the updated Alt
   ... At this point, broken links aren't a worry, but instead
   substantive changes.

   DM: I agree on concern over screen position, but think screen
   readers are savvy enough to handle above/below at least?
   ... We've been toying with requiring a label on items with
   ... My other bug items were only in the Alt Text Guidance, not
   the HTML doc.

   SF: This is about how much text should go in an alt attribute.

   DM: Versus when you transition to a longdesc.

   JS: When we put up a specific number, we have issues from

   SF: Structured text, foreign words, etc. probably aren't a fit
   for alt.
   ... The alt becomes the accessible name that gets announced.

   DM: Agree.

   LW: Guidance around the number of words in a sentence, around
   25 words, might be good.

   SF: If you have information to provide back-up for those notes,
   let me know.

   DM: The example with the lamp is 107 words.

   JS: I think we objected to that as too long.

   SF: I think that's not in there anymore.

   DM: I would stand behind a couple sentences as a limit.

   JS: I think we're ending up with a good spec.
   ... Reminder, HTML is looking to move forward to CR, so we need
   to wrap this up.

Longdesc CfC

Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps

   MS: A note to be added to address hit targeting versus WG spec.
   ... I drafted that and added it.
   ... Informed HTML editors the spec is ready to go to LC.
   ... Announced to list that we are available for any questions.
   ... Told them we'd also be available on the call, received no
   question on-list or on the call.
   ... Hoping we are getting a stable LC version of Canvas ready.

   RS: We may want to point out that even though it deviates from
   WHATWG spec, is designed to allow us to migrate to that spec...
   ... in regards to hit testing, to prevent things from breaking.

   MS: For mouse events or all work?

   RS: Mouse events.

   MS: Is it possible they may think our approach is sound/better
   and may change the WHATWG spec.

   r/It is/It is

   RS: I am suggesting a note to clarify this.

   MS: Our note has considered Canvas Level 2, stating that we've
   made it to be forward-compatible should be sufficient.

   RS: Ok.

   MS: Do you think this would be better in the document status or
   right in the Hit Regions section?

   SR: A note is fine, but maybe don't say "compatible with

   SF: Suggest a note pointing to appropriate spec.

   MS: Have a note pointing to WHATWG spec, may want to point to
   our own Level 2 spec.

Table Summary Issues Redux

Bug Triage

   LW: We had a brief call. Looking at moving the meeting time to
   avoid conflicts.
   ... Pretty quiet at the moment. Have processed all outstanding
   5.0 bugs. Several assigned to different TFs, though.
   ... ARIA, Media sub-teams, some individuals.

   <MarkS> [27]Current a11y Bugs

     [27] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Current_Bug_Triage_Issues

   MS: I think last week we talked about pinging SF on 24679.

   LW: Did that, re-opened against 5.1.

   [discussion of Media Sub-Team meeting times]

   <JF> Josh Meille and Owen Evans of Smith-Kettelwell (sp)

   <JF> both have expressed a willingness to work with mEDIA

   JS: [Media Sub-Team] looking to create content with all
   different media types, add-ons.
   ... [Media Sub-Team] Captions, sign language, etc. so someone
   has examples for testing in UAs and AT.

Table Summary Issues Redux

   JS: This has been popping up since CSUN. Any updates?

   MS: I think next step is to draft guidance for creating
   accessible table descriptions.
   ... I know DM has run tests on current support, looking for
   anyone else to help.

   DM: I think we have to lobby Freedom Scientific to allow
   aria-describedby on <table>.
   ... This would apply to the overall table, not just within a
   specific cell.

   JS: Hearing vendor discussion, but what about changing in the
   spec? Timing is an issue.

   JF: My recollection is that letting summary go, LW and I were
   supposed to draft techniques for WCAG Techniques.
   ... There a couple ways we can provided a summary outside of
   ARIA. Sporadic support in the HTML5 spec.

   MS: That was the gist, yes. My proposal to DM is that we draft
   the example text for HTML5.
   ... That section will have to be changed as details/summary are
   unlikely to make it into HTML5.
   ... During HTMLWG F2F consensus is it won't make it.

   JS: What about 5.1?

   MS: It's possible.
   ... But we need some examples in 5.0 to describe a table.
   ... John, David, Leonie and I should get together.

   JS: I caution the group about time-sensitive edits are on the
   HTML spec, the other docs are on their own schedules.
   ... So changes to HTML5 should be a primary focus given the
   closing window of time.
   ... Soon. Very soon.

   rrsagent make minutes

   <MarkS> [28]Describing a Table

     [28] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/tabular-data.html#table-descriptions-techniques

   MS: This is what we need to replace.

   JS: Worth pointing to this on the HTMLWG list as a heads-up.

Our HTML 5.1 Objectives

   <MarkS> [29]Wishlist for 5.1 Wiki

     [29] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist

   JS: Not much time today, but we need to get focusing on 5.1.
   ... LC for 5.1 isn't that far in the future.
   ... Look at the wiki, see where you want to do some work.

   MS: Added one more thing to wishlist after PF editors call.
   ... Frustration with linking terms to definitions.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

Adrian Roselli
Founder, Vice President

Algonquin Studios
(716) 842-1439 Phone
(716) 842-1762 Fax
(716) 408-8716 Direct

Received on Thursday, 24 April 2014 16:09:40 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:56:40 UTC