Minutes from 2 May teleconference

Minutes from the HTML-A11Y Task Force teleconference of 2 May are
provided below as text, and are available as hypertext at:



                                                                                   - DRAFT -

                                                                 HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

02 May 2013

   See also: IRC log


          Mark_Sadecki, John_Foliot, hober, +1.201.785.aaaa, Janina, leonie, Suzanne, Judy, Cooper, chaals, David_MacDonald




     * Topics
         1. identify scribe
         2. Bug Triage sub team
         3. Wiki, TF pages, similar administrative things
         4. HTML5 testing
         5. the former issue-194, transcript element/attributes in HTML5
         6. longdesc bugs - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013May/0000.html
     * Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 02 May 2013

   <st> 201-785-9919 is me

   <st> Suzanne Taylor

identify scribe

   <chaals> Scribe: Janina

   <scribe> scribe: janina

Bug Triage sub team

   leonie: Currently 3 members of this subteam
   ... One moving to NZ and may be unable to continue, leaving two
   ... Looking for recruits

   jf: What's involved?

   <chaals> ACTION: Chaals to send recruiting call to TF mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Send recruiting call to TF mailing list [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-05-09].

   leonie: Currently fairly quiet
   ... We meet Wednesdays at 14:00Z
   ... Open to meeting time adjustments

   jf: Willing to consider

   ms: Also me

   cn: Will also sub to list

   suzanne: Will look for opportunities as I get acquainted

   jb: Noting it's a good place to get acquainted with the breadth of issues we consider

   suzanne: OK, sign me up too!

   [pause for personal intros]

Wiki, TF pages, similar administrative things

   cn: Looking to see whether there's progress updating?
   ... Also looking to people willing to edit and bring the wiki up to date

   <MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Meetings/Minutes

   <MarkS> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Scribe_List#Scheduled_Scribes

   ms: Have been editing and have brought scribe list and minutes up to date

   <chaals> ACTION: chaals to post a modified version of leonie's wiki page summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-179 - Post a modified version of leonie's wiki page summary [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2013-05-09].

   janina: Wondering about our deliverables?

   jb: Yes, there's a coming HTML-WG rechartering that lists various deliverables, some of which are ours

   <LJWatson> The email I sent to the TF list: http://www.w3.org/mid/002c01ce2664$16bd1a80$44374f80$@tink.co.uk

   jb: One item os an HTML to A11y APIs mapping doc
   ... Currently there are longdesc extenion and the ARIA Mappings

   janina: That should ARIA in HTML; Longdesc; HTML to A11y APIs; Alt Text; and expecting Transcript

HTML5 testing

   cn: A major topic at the HTML-WG F2F last week
   ... One concern is to test a11y in HTML, needing our assistance in that
   ... Probably another year to bring this to completion
   ... F2F did walk the entire spec to categorize which aspects are widely known to be working, which need testing

   jb: Still sorting testing work as it will require substantial resources

   <chaals> s/need testing/need testing. It would be good for us to do that, but maybe not today (it is likely to take a few hours just to walk through the list/)

   jb: On the team side we are working to make sure that there's good understanding on how to test a11y including what can be automated, what needs manual, etc
   ... Concern is that too much reliance on automated may not sufficiently exercise a11y

   leonie: Not understanding what the outcomes are expected to be?
   ... That a11y features work?

   <chaals> JS: A couple of years ago we walked though to look at things that need work. Could be time to do that again - in particular we know we need to look at
   acccesskey, while we believe that alt works ok

   <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to explain to leonie what I expect

   janina: Suggesting this gives us a good reason to walk the spec from an a11y viewpoint

   cn: To Leonie: That we are satisfied the spec explains how to provide a11y support interoperably
   ... There are things where it may be unclear how to implement in order that a11y works

   <chaals> js: Think canvas is a good example - sometimes fallback text is there but is more or less impossible to work with in practice.

   jb: Usually, we've talked evaluating content in the past, but now we're looking at ua implementations

   cn: So, we're evaluating the HTML specifications, that they lead to good implementations that work all around. Do people generally get it right?
   ... Expect this may take quite a bit of our time in the next year because it is very important
   ... Is there more on this today? Only intended an intro at this time.

   jb: One question for people to start considering: Whether or not we need a subteam for this
   ... Expect so, though the plenary TF will need updates and to provide input regularly

   cn: Unsure we need a new subteam, or transition Bug Triage? Though not a decision today

   <MarkS> +1 Sub Team

   cn: As Leonie asked, yes, this a good opportunity to work more closely in the HTML-WG

the former issue-194, transcript element/attributes in HTML5

   cn: Previously there were two proposals but no consensus reached
   ... F2F suggested the TF take this on, if we want this specified for 5.0, as an extention spec
   ... So, we would be looking for a proposal (or several), then a TF decision to adopt one or another as a TF extension

   jf: We previously had a proposal that had fairly wide support, but not complete support ...

   cn: Wait, do you plan to propose a spec?

   jf: Yes

   ted: Eventually. If JF proposes, will speed mine up

   cn: So, if JF proposes, Ted will provide either a counter proposal or a list of changes

longdesc bugs - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013May/0000.html

   <chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21565

   Bug re longdesc on presentational images ...

   cn: Not really a problem with longdesc, but on when to provide for longdesc
   ... propose resolution is "invalid"

   <chaals> RESOLUTION: 21565 is invalid

   <JF> +1

   <chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21781 affect of base / xml:base

   cn: Suggest we wait to resolve this one

   <chaals> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21778 user agents MUST present longdesc.

   [no disagreement]

   <chaals> RESOLUTION: 21781 stays open for now

   <chaals> CN: Proposal was to make the requirment for presenting a longdesc as a must instead of should

 another proposal asked to allow user agents to ignore invalid longdesc

 these directly contradict each other...

 and there is another proposal to deal wit hte specific case of blank longdesc.

 My proposal to resolve all these is to make a requirement that "user agents MUST present valid URIs in longdesc through normal user interfaces, and to
   accessibility APIs"

   cn: Reason to not specify error handling is lack of experience, etc., and we agreed previously not to do that
   ... So a "must" when URI is valid

   <JF> +1

   ted: Is this a requirement on user agents or AT?

   cn: On whatever the circumstance

   ted: Think we should be clear on which conformance class

   <MarkS> +1

   suzanne: Sounds like browser opens if determined to be a URI, else allows either broser or AT for additional determinations

   <chaals> RESOLUTION: close 21778 and related bugs with "user agents MUST present valid URIs in longdesc through normal user interfaces, and to accessibility APIs"
   without making requirements on what to do in the error condition

   ted: Expect this to be controversial in WG

   cn: Believe general consensus is for browsers to implement longdesc directly, but not unanimity on this
   ... Don't believe wordsmithing will help

   [no disagreement]


   <chaals> adjourned

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: chaals to post a modified version of leonie's wiki page summary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: Chaals to send recruiting call to TF mailing list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/02-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]

Found Scribe: janina
Present: Mark_Sadecki John_Foliot hober +1.201.785.aaaa Janina leonie Suzanne Judy Cooper chaals David_MacDonald
People with action items: chaals


Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200
  Email: janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
 Indie UI   http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Received on Thursday, 2 May 2013 16:09:12 UTC