RE: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current browsers, and Screen Readers

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, I was given an action
item from the Accessibility Task force as we did a walkthrough of the
standard yesterday, to test the examples in the Table section. I was quite
surprised at the results.

 Summary has been dropped for X years and those Table examples have been in
the HTML 5 Doc for X years... AT has done nothing so far to adapt to our
examples, I hope Rich's influence will help.

I don't think we should include information that doesn't work in a normative
document, unless AT companies have said, yes we will support your examples. 

I would also suggest removing the error in the validator which currently
says:
"x The summary attribute is obsolete. Consider describing the structure of
the table in a caption element or in a figure element containing the table;
or, simplify the structure of the table so that no description is needed."

http://tinyurl.com/kyuw3se

Cheers
David MacDonald

CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
  Adapting the web to all users
            Including those with disabilities
www.Can-Adapt.com 



-----Original Message-----
From: Joshue O Connor [mailto:joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie] 
Sent: June-21-13 1:09 PM
To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
Subject: Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current
browsers, and Screen Readers

Janina Sajka wrote:
> The current status of HTML 5 is CR. To change the spec would require a 
> return to Last Call. I'm not for that over table summary [...]

> I'm perfectly OK with #2. I agree it leaves a gap, but we've had a gap 
> for sometime already. Fortunately, the gap will soon be filled, namely 
> when we do our FPWD of ARIA 1.1 later this year. I'm for going 
> forward, not backward.

I'm also ok with this.

HTH

Josh

> Just my 2 cents (American).
>
> Janina
>
> David MacDonald writes:
>> Hi Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> A small correction to your take on what I said in my post. I actually 
>> did not make a recommendation to return to table Summary. I am simply 
>> documenting that as we enter into recommendation status, the advice 
>> we are providing to web authors fails WCAGs conformance requirement 
>> of accessibility support. And the example techniques listed currently 
>> don't help blind folks... even though web authors trust us to give 
>> them useful advice.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are certainly well documented disadvantages (and advantages) to 
>> the Summary attribute but until AT catches up on replacements, and 
>> they have had several years to do so, we are looking at another of 
>> those awful gaps that work on paper but not in the real world for blind
folks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> David MacDonald
>>
>>
>>
>> CanAdapt Solutions Inc.
>>
>>    Adapting the web to all users
>>
>>              Including those with disabilities
>>
>>   <http://www.can-adapt.com/>  www.Can-Adapt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:schwer@us.ibm.com]
>> Sent: June-21-13 10:48 AM
>> To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org; public-html-a11y@w3.org
>> Cc: Steve Faulkner; mick@nvaccess.org
>> Subject: Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in 
>> current browsers, and Screen Readers
>>
>>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> I saw your post that you think summary should be reinstated because 
>> of a JAWS and/or NVDA have a defect (it works in VoiceOver) does not 
>> warrant going back to the hodge podge of attributes that were thrown 
>> in at the end of HTML 4's release.
>>
>> Let's stick with a consistent set of APIs (ARIA) that developers can 
>> go to as much as possible for one stop shopping.
>>
>> I have alerted Freedom Scientific of the defect and they will fix it. 
>> I have copied Mick Curran at NVDA and hopefully they will also 
>> correct the problem with IE and Firefox.
>>
>> Mick, please see the following link:
>>
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0089.html#s
>> tart89
>>
>> We can't be writing specs. based on proprietary assistive technology 
>> defects.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>
>

Received on Friday, 21 June 2013 18:14:01 UTC