- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 20:44:29 +0100
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net> wrote: > As usual, if there is objection in the Task Force to such a consensus > position, please respond by replying to this message no later than close > of business, Boston Time, on Friday 11 May. Me again (sorry). I object because: 1. It's not been shown that authors are more likely to mark content @hidden and expect it to be rendered than they are to mark content @hidden and expect it to be hidden. So it's not obvious that we should expect user agents to try to honor references to hidden content. 2. It's sometimes said that ARIA requires this, but that's not really true, since (a) HTML is free as a host language to define the text alternative implied by @hidden's semantics and (b) ARIA's implementation guide says (informatively) that user agents should not put aria-hidden content into the accessibility hierarchy except as required when computing text alternatives. 3. No concrete examples have been given where the proponents would like @hidden content to be rendered and where this would provide either the same user experience with simpler existing techniques (aria-label) or a better user experience with techniques that work today (CSS off-screen positioning). So even if we want user agents to honor references to hidden content it's not obvious we should make such markup conforming. 4. Rationales should feature examples that _act_ as rationale rather than presume rationality but the examples given in the Change Proposal's rationale have poor usability and maintainability characteristics. Example 1 still features an image where (AFAICT) the accessible name would compute to ASCII gibberish, seemingly demonstrating this markup pattern is beyond even expert authors. Example 2 would be much more simply authored with @aria-label. Example 3 is self-confessedly "not a great piece of UI design". 5. How to apply the editorial changes in Details is unclear. For example, they include the text "All HTML elements may have the hidden content attribute set" in the text to be added, even though in the draft this comes a couple paragraphs before the text to be removed. It's not obvious if the intent is to delete the "skeletal example" given in the HTML5 spec or not. 6. The HTML5 spec has "it would be incorrect to use the href attribute to link to a section marked with the hidden attribute. If the content is not applicable or relevant, then there is no reason to link to it." The Change Proposal replaces this with: "Since the content is not rendered, linking to it would result in behavior the user does not expect, either dropping the user at a location with no rendered content, or failing to navigate." This contradicts the HTML5 spec, which fully defines the result (navigation occurs, but the user agent does not bring the hidden area to the user's attention, for example by scrolling it into view). For a detailed walk-through of the spec on this point, please see: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Apr/0166.html 7. The proposed text includes "hidden elements MAY be used to provide descriptive text if such content provides a good user experience, by using aria-describedby and aria-labelledby and HTML labelling elements such as <label>, <legend>, <caption>, and <figcaption>." The only reason for introducing this text at all is to provide guidance for web authors, but this text is too vague to be helpful. How does a user know whether they have provided a "good user experience" or not? I think the actual end-user requirement here is best expressed by WCAG 1.1. If we're going to list HTML labeling elements that count for these purposes we should provide an exhaustive list rather than just examples. 8. "Authors SHOULD NOT use hidden elements for longer content that has structured text (e.g., headings, anchors, list markup, table markup, etc.), as some user-agents/AT will flatten the referenced elements to plain text, losing interactivity and semantic structure." This has nothing to do with @hidden, this is the effect of computing an accessible name or description, and it's very confusing to authors and damaging to web accessibility to imply it has anything to do with @hidden. The relevant point with @hidden is that it's not clear how UAs should allow navigation with or interaction with content in @hidden, so the ARIA implementation guide (informatively) says they should not create objects in the accessible hierarchy for such content. 9. If we think it's realistic for UAs and AT to provide pointers to structured/interactive descriptions without simultaneously reducing them into a plain text property, we should require that rather than pretend this is beyond our technical knowhow. 10. If we think it's realistic for UAs and AT to expose hidden content for navigation and interaction when it receives content focus or interactive focus, we should require that rather than leave them to read between the lines to see this is allowed. I'd better stop writing before I think of more reasons to object. ;) -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Wednesday, 9 May 2012 19:45:18 UTC