- From: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:13:05 -0400
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4F6B4F91.8010000@w3.org>
Minutes of the 22 March 2012 HTML Accessibility Task Force meeting are
posted to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html and copied
below.
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
22 Mar 2012
Agenda
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Mar/0318.html>
See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-irc>
Attendees
Present
Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Cooper, Janina_Sajka,
Leif_Halvard_Silli, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich
Regrets
Laura_Carlson
Chair
Janina_Sajka
Scribe
David
Contents
* Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
1. Clarifications on Issues Raised Last Week
<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#item01>
2. Longdesc and the New ARIA-DescribedAt
<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02>
3. canvas
<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03>
* Summary of Action Items
<http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarifications on Issues Raised Last Week
<janina>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Mar/0319.html
Janina: questions came up last week concerned... need to clarify... tf
has authority by charter to come to consensus decision and make
recommendations... 2 did we come to consensus on longdesc... js sent out
uri with charter, and the formal email that js sent notifying us our
consensus...
jb: clarifyies that Mike S last week was not accurate... need to ensure
that is is clear that that we do have Charter to make recommendations,
developing consensus and make recommendations... many worked hard to
reach consensus
jb... rich will join call soon
Longdesc and the New ARIA-DescribedAt
js: longdesc and describedAT, quicker to talk about it than email...
rs... DescribedAT not a proposal... it is a wai aria enhancement of
longdesc... not getting in middle of longdesc... not an offical draft,
need to follow process, so it's a personal proposal, until approved by
aria group... wants to talk to manufacturers... what is different. don't
care what it's called
rs describeda alloies to all elements of host language including SVG etc..
if we knew atribute was available cold we put it on the video tag...
etc... in shoulds... would like to see browsers ... walking into museum
with kiosk... could touch a picture of giraffe find out more
information... visual indication tat it is present. if so can be
acivated and brought up and closed and left the user were they were...
problem with longdesc... but never provided that level...
scribe: of functionality...
aria up to this point has not been used to tell the browser how to
render certain things, so i need to talk to those manufacturers to get
their fedback on whether it makes sense to go forward..browser needs to
provide a mechanism to bring this up
js need to think about how we react.... are we still in support of
longdesc? describedby has been kicked around need to ask whether to put
that to bed...
jf describedby will not have api
rs well actually yes... will be in the api... in iaccessible2 query
it... and an alternative input device, you could put the activating o
the alternate keyboard.l.. onscreen keyboard... it would be exposed to
the api... probably can do it uia
cynthia... yes we could do that in uia
js should be a visual indication that it is there...
jf woulc it be hidden
rs it would be in url
rs not good in fallback content in canvas
rs would be fully navigable
janina let's keep it to strategy...
rs aria is not constrained by timeline of html
jb interesting... have questions... where is it being designed... in
aria space... encourage rs to stay close to aria task force...
jb html wg side of things... this has been focusing discussion... early
implementation ideas, can be problematic before it iws discussed with
aria group... is this taking focus away from the longdesc ... doesn't
remove need for conformant bridge...
dialogue has shifted in last few days... percieved as a proposal... what
can we do to clarify that we need longdesc
rs not taking a public position o longdesc... until aria 1.1 is
implemented in browsers... wont' see aria 1.1 until a newerversion of a
browser has it... in browsers today longdesc not well supported...
fixing longesc will require several... won't see any major changes in FF
until about version 15
can't pull longdesc out now
jb concerned that we've opened up a big issue with describedat...
and confused longdesc...
rs regarding enhancing longdesc... is that going to confuse descibedAT
jf issue 30, 195, 204, with this issue... timing couldn't be worse...
chairs won't make decision because there seems to be active discussion
cynthiaa shelly the value is it's out of html politics, and it will
solve the technical problems, and getting it into aria is better
jf specific to 195 sylvia asked for extension... rs released wai-aria to
issues... propose a resolution including longdesc
cynthia this is an engineering.... obsolete but conforming longdesc...
we should back of of longdesc
jb obsolete but conforming causes an error flag.... concerned about that
rs a warning would be a benefit, not an error
jb thought rs was proposing a conversion path
janina obsolete but conforming would still require chairs to move on
it... it's not in there at all right now
zakim/ next item
zakim /next item
Leif motivation for proposal to extend longdesc...
proposes any element that is an image
CS thins its reasonable... from an engineering proposal it's the same as
described at, my main propblem with longdesc is that it was
underspecified... at the end of the day it's an attribute...
rs to me its a strategy discussion... i would want something that can be
applied to other host technologies... i have a consistent set of
attributes... that the value of aria
rs would rather take wai aria approach
want something that could be put on a DIV.... there has got to be a
path, but don't want browsers to yank it out... so obsolete but
conforming would be better... an unofficial draft...
leif... RS said aria describedAT should be visual indication?
rs yes
leif laura's longdesc proposal is saying is should not be a visual
indication.
jf the issue ... cannot expect graphic designer to put something... but
that goes back to d link which was unsuccessful... perhaps a user
setting in the browser bakes it visual, not a responsibility o the
graphic designer...
js does longdesc continue to be developed, or should designing energy
need to go into describedAT.
jb we should extend the meeting to 90 minutes by starting 30 minutes
earlier... on future meetings...
canvas
rs ian put in a path proposal into canvas, no discussion... confuses
issues... Microsoft won't support... for hit testing, introduces a
path.... doesn't help hit testing...
rs dom and web components... ian is suggesting you can use another
dom... messes up the native host language you are applying that to...
even if you had a host language with feathers... alluding to an object
model that we haven't seen..
<LeifHSilli> Note on @Longdesc: I disagree with "obsolete but
conforming". May be in HTML6. But not in HTML5. The perspective that we
can get @aria-describedAT is a strong reason to only make @longdesc
valid for <img>.
rs ian is making changes without us being able to review them... it's in
the WHAT space... concerns me... if it's going to be introduced over here...
js thinks it's more HTML.next
Cynthia this wold be a huge project and is beyond Ian... even if was it
would take ... year to get it right.... or more... way too big a project
in HTML5 timeline
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
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$Date: 2012/03/22 16:11:18 $
--
Michael Cooper
Web Accessibility Specialist
World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative
E-mail cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>
Information Page <http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/>
Received on Thursday, 22 March 2012 16:13:57 UTC