W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > March 2012

Minutes HTML A11Y TF 22 March 2012

From: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 12:13:05 -0400
Message-ID: <4F6B4F91.8010000@w3.org>
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Minutes of the 22 March 2012 HTML Accessibility Task Force meeting are
posted to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html and copied

  HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

    22 Mar 2012


See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-irc>


    Judy, David_MacDonald, John_Foliot, Cooper, Janina_Sajka,
    Leif_Halvard_Silli, Cynthia_Shelly, Rich


    * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/03/22-html-a11y-minutes.html#agenda>
         1. Clarifications on Issues Raised Last Week
         2. Longdesc and the New ARIA-DescribedAt
         3. canvas
    * Summary of Action Items


      Clarifications on Issues Raised Last Week


Janina: questions came up last week concerned... need to clarify... tf
has authority by charter to come to consensus decision and make
recommendations... 2 did we come to consensus on longdesc... js sent out
uri with charter, and the formal email that js sent notifying us our

jb: clarifyies that Mike S last week was not accurate... need to ensure
that is is clear that that we do have Charter to make recommendations,
developing consensus and make recommendations... many worked hard to
reach consensus

jb... rich will join call soon

      Longdesc and the New ARIA-DescribedAt

js: longdesc and describedAT, quicker to talk about it than email...

rs... DescribedAT not a proposal... it is a wai aria enhancement of
longdesc... not getting in middle of longdesc... not an offical draft,
need to follow process, so it's a personal proposal, until approved by
aria group... wants to talk to manufacturers... what is different. don't
care what it's called

rs describeda alloies to all elements of host language including SVG etc..

if we knew atribute was available cold we put it on the video tag...
etc... in shoulds... would like to see browsers ... walking into museum
with kiosk... could touch a picture of giraffe find out more
information... visual indication tat it is present. if so can be
acivated and brought up and closed and left the user were they were...
problem with longdesc... but never provided that level...

scribe: of functionality...

aria up to this point has not been used to tell the browser how to
render certain things, so i need to talk to those manufacturers to get
their fedback on whether it makes sense to go forward..browser needs to
provide a mechanism to bring this up

js need to think about how we react.... are we still in support of
longdesc? describedby has been kicked around need to ask whether to put
that to bed...

jf describedby will not have api

rs well actually yes... will be in the api... in iaccessible2 query
it... and an alternative input device, you could put the activating o
the alternate keyboard.l.. onscreen keyboard... it would be exposed to
the api... probably can do it uia

cynthia... yes we could do that in uia

js should be a visual indication that it is there...

jf woulc it be hidden

rs it would be in url

rs not good in fallback content in canvas

rs would be fully navigable

janina let's keep it to strategy...

rs aria is not constrained by timeline of html

jb interesting... have questions... where is it being designed... in
aria space... encourage rs to stay close to aria task force...

jb html wg side of things... this has been focusing discussion... early
implementation ideas, can be problematic before it iws discussed with
aria group... is this taking focus away from the longdesc ... doesn't
remove need for conformant bridge...

dialogue has shifted in last few days... percieved as a proposal... what
can we do to clarify that we need longdesc

rs not taking a public position o longdesc... until aria 1.1 is
implemented in browsers... wont' see aria 1.1 until a newerversion of a
browser has it... in browsers today longdesc not well supported...
fixing longesc will require several... won't see any major changes in FF
until about version 15

can't pull longdesc out now

jb concerned that we've opened up a big issue with describedat...

and confused longdesc...

rs regarding enhancing longdesc... is that going to confuse descibedAT

jf issue 30, 195, 204, with this issue... timing couldn't be worse...
chairs won't make decision because there seems to be active discussion

cynthiaa shelly the value is it's out of html politics, and it will
solve the technical problems, and getting it into aria is better

jf specific to 195 sylvia asked for extension... rs released wai-aria to
issues... propose a resolution including longdesc

cynthia this is an engineering.... obsolete but conforming longdesc...
we should back of of longdesc

jb obsolete but conforming causes an error flag.... concerned about that

rs a warning would be a benefit, not an error

jb thought rs was proposing a conversion path

janina obsolete but conforming would still require chairs to move on
it... it's not in there at all right now

zakim/ next item

zakim /next item

Leif motivation for proposal to extend longdesc...

proposes any element that is an image

CS thins its reasonable... from an engineering proposal it's the same as
described at, my main propblem with longdesc is that it was
underspecified... at the end of the day it's an attribute...

rs to me its a strategy discussion... i would want something that can be
applied to other host technologies... i have a consistent set of
attributes... that the value of aria

rs would rather take wai aria approach

want something that could be put on a DIV.... there has got to be a
path, but don't want browsers to yank it out... so obsolete but
conforming would be better... an unofficial draft...

leif... RS said aria describedAT should be visual indication?

rs yes

leif laura's longdesc proposal is saying is should not be a visual

jf the issue ... cannot expect graphic designer to put something... but
that goes back to d link which was unsuccessful... perhaps a user
setting in the browser bakes it visual, not a responsibility o the
graphic designer...

js does longdesc continue to be developed, or should designing energy
need to go into describedAT.

jb we should extend the meeting to 90 minutes by starting 30 minutes
earlier... on future meetings...


rs ian put in a path proposal into canvas, no discussion... confuses
issues... Microsoft won't support... for hit testing, introduces a
path.... doesn't help hit testing...

rs dom and web components... ian is suggesting you can use another
dom... messes up the native host language you are applying that to...
even if you had a host language with feathers... alluding to an object
model that we haven't seen..

<LeifHSilli> Note on @Longdesc: I disagree with "obsolete but
conforming". May be in HTML6. But not in HTML5. The perspective that we
can get @aria-describedAT is a strong reason to only make @longdesc
valid for <img>.

rs ian is making changes without us being able to review them... it's in
the WHAT space... concerns me... if it's going to be introduced over here...

js thinks it's more HTML.next

Cynthia this wold be a huge project and is beyond Ian... even if was it
would take ... year to get it right.... or more... way too big a project
in HTML5 timeline

    Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
version 1.136 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>)
$Date: 2012/03/22 16:11:18 $


Michael Cooper
Web Accessibility Specialist
World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative
E-mail cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org>
Information Page <http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/>
Received on Thursday, 22 March 2012 16:13:57 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:56:06 UTC