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Re: Proof of growth of acceptance/implementation - longdesc

From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:20:07 +0200
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
Message-ID: <20100922122007343909.8c142f42@xn--mlform-iua.no>
Laura, Benjamins adds a new argument:

Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis, Wed, 22 Sep 2010 10:50:35 +0100:
> On 22 Sep 2010, at 08:21, Leif Halvard Silli wrote:

>> Drew's example really has to be looked away from when the chairs 
>> eventually are re-evaluating the case: Any increase in misuse of 
>> @longdesc is partly happening because of our, the HTMLwg's - lack of 
>> will to define @longdesc.
> This seems like a bad example of that.
> The current draft makes "longdesc" non-conforming and, unusually, the 
> HTML WG has explicitly endorsed this with a WG decision.
> People attempting HTML5 conformance would be avoiding "longdesc", not 
> using or abusing it.

14) That HTML5  allows authors to use data-something instead of 
misusing @longdesc is indeed a fact that should lead to less use of 

To speak to your argument, Benjamin: 2,5 years, said Sam. That is 2,5 
years in lack of leadership with regard to how to use @longdesc - if 
there has been any leadership, then it has been only negative: don't 
use it. Thus my argument is valid: *if*/*to the extent* that bad use of 
@longdesc has increased during the time HTML5 has been on W3's agenda 
(this question must be evaluated, but Drew has certainly not 
contributed to the opposite), then this can not, in a situation where 
we have not been clear about how it - positively - should be used, be 
taken as proof that @longdesc is bad. 

You are right that people looking to what the HTML5 draft says, should 
draw the conclusion to not use @longdesc (though as Drew demonstrates: 
there is "valid" and "valid"). And no one is required to obey the HTML5 

There is a Norwegian expression: there is hope in a line that hangs out 
into the sea. Understated: even it doesn't have a hook.  Clearly, one 
can hope that @longdesc goes drastically up or stays the same. But if 
there is no encouragement to use it - instead there is FUD and 
questioning, then that has to be taken into account.

In the end, Laura and everyone must _anyhow_ present the best possible 
arguments. From that angle, usage must of course be brought up, 
evaluated and hopefully result in as positive argument _for_ @longdesc. 
My point is only, that just as Sam is not willing to accept a one day 
old Wordpress plug in as sign that support of @longdesc  is increasing, 
I am not willing to accept that 2,5 years of neglect is looked away 
from when evaluating what happened during those years. 

Then I think it is _more_ striking, that - despite all the negativity - 
an image gallery such as YAG [*] was created in 2009, seemingly without 
any input from this list - and seemingly inspired by JQuery goodness.
[*] http://www.setaou.net/yag
leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 22 September 2010 10:20:41 UTC

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