- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 20:00:39 +0100
- To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
aloha!
minutes from the 9 September 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Foce
teleconference can be accessed as hypertext at:
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-minutes.html
as an IRC log at:
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-irc
and as plain text following my signature -- as usual, please log
any errors, clarifications, mis-attributions, and the like by
replying-to this announcement on-list...
note that 1 action item was assigned at today's telecon:
* ACTION-59: MikeSmith to check into making it possible for any
HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list
* http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02
* http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/59
_________________________________________________________
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
09 Sep 2010
Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0229.html
See also: IRC log http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina,
John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, Mike, Rich, dsinger,
Marco_Ranon, Steve_Faulkner
Regrets
Laura_Carlson, Martin_Kliehm, Kenny_Johar, Sylvia_Pfeiffer,
Denis_Boudreau
Chair
Mike_Smith
Scribe
Gregory_Rosmaita
Contents
* Topics
1. Actions Review
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
2. funneling public feedback to the HTML Accessibility Task
Force
3. media subteam update
4. ARIA mappings subteam update
5. canvas update
6. drag and drop
7. Access-asterisk
* Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<MikeSmith> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Date: 09 September 2010
<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> scribenick: oedipus
Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
<MikeSmith> action-57?
<trackbot> ACTION-57 -- Paul Cotton to provide background keyboard
support for drag and drop (3 weeks) -- due 2010-09-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/57
MS: don't think paul will be on today's call
<MikeSmith> action-57 due 2010-09-16
<trackbot> ACTION-57 Provide background keyboard support for drag
and drop (3 weeks) due date now 2010-09-16
JS: concerned about some lagging actions around drag and drop and
accesskey in terms of closing out bugs by 1 October 2010 as
determined by the HTML WG chairs
MS: bug open on drag and drop
... don't know about accesskey/access-*
<MikeSmith> action-54?
<trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Judy Brewer to follow up that NCAM files can
be used in HTML5 testbed -- due 2010-08-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/54
action-54?
<trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Judy Brewer to follow up that NCAM files can
be used in HTML5 testbed -- due 2010-08-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/54
JF: Judy needs to get clarification from NCAM -- want to use
materials as part of test suite
<MikeSmith> action-47?
<trackbot> ACTION-47 -- Steve Faulkner to file a bug with HTML 5
about making autocomplete consistent with ARIA, per comment 289
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/comments/update?comment_id=289 --
due 2010-09-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/47
JF: discussed in yesterday's Media subteam telecon
MS: not sure if SteveF has completed action item -- filed a large
number of ARIA bugs
<MikeSmith> action-28 due 2010-09-16
<trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document
about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in
post to list due date now 2010-09-16
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Alt_tech_appendix (been up
since 2010-07-29)
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28
action-28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28
funneling public feedback to the HTML Accessibility Task Force
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0206.html
chairs recommend use of public-pfwg-comments list as stated in work
statment, but that list is for feedback on PFWG deliverables
GJR: believe that Janina and MCooper suggest that public-html-a11y
should be used instead
JS: wrong place for TF members -- confounds PFWG's ability to track
formal responses to PF work; want to open up public-html-a11y to
public posting so that if someone needs to address TF, can send to
public-html-a11y -- arguments both pro and con
... rammification of using public-html-a11y -- people won't receive
follow-up; could be flooded with email; prolliferation of responses
... on other hand, need mechanism other than bugzilla to have
technical discussions
<JF> +q
JS: simple point of clarification that can be responded to quickly
-- encourage some to join public-html-a11y to work on issues
JF: isn't part of A11y TF req that one has to be member of HTML WG
and the W3C patent policy
... if not members, have to CC on response
MC: 1 of primary reasons didn't make list publically writable
initially
GJR: notes that bugzilla is the culprit when it comes to
proliferation of posts
JF: don't want public-html-a11y to be a "catch-all" place where
people expect responses
MS: non-members cannot post to list; could monitor them, but that is
a burden
... other list can be used -- www-style list for technical
discussions open to public, for example
MS: 1st need to figure out if what we are doing now is broken -- if
not, don't change
... wanted HTML WG members to be more involved in TF -- allowing
them to post to TF list without being part of TF doesn't give
incentive to join
JS: but then they are cut off from the discussion/threads
MS: what is problem - does it need fixing?
... some people sent cross-posted emessages to public-html and
public-html-a11y -- threat of starting 2 threads -- not recommended
that post to both public-html and public-html-a11y
... if post message to a member list and a public list, those
reading message on member list reply only to member list
... solution is not to cross post -- restrict to one list or another
GJR: but public-html-a11y is publically reviewable
... people can use archive to keep up on threads and review
responses
CS: 2 thoughts: 1) reason don't have separate public comments list;
2) tweak reply-to header to include poster
MS: can we change the headers?
MC: think so, but not sure
MS: will check into header tweaking through admin interface
JS: more we talk about this, the more i find my mind changing --
<dsinger_> trackbot, prepare telcon
JS: problem may just be guidance -- don't want posting to
public-pfwg-comments -- we could use wai-xtech@w3.org
MS: not sure necessary for people to send comments to the
public-html-a11y -- a lot of people think have too many mailing
lists already
... TF is intended to answer to PFWG and HTML WG -- not ment to be a
public facing group that people expect they can comment to
CS: if have existing low volume list, that would make sense
MC: catch-22 problem with wai-xtech -- used for many different
purposes; no formal way at moment to separate threads -- if someone
wants to monitor, could be an option
CS: unlikely that comments on HTML5 will get lost on wai-xtech
JF: members of HTML WG should be able to post to HTML A11y TF -- if
HTML WG members want/need advice, they should be able to post to
public-html-a11y
JS: can mail support member of PFWG and HTML WG?
MC: allowing anyone in HTML WG to post to public-html-a11y not so
easy
CS: change bounce message with instructions on how to get post
posted to public-html-a11y
MC: doesn't require approval, but does require processing
... extended invitation to HTML WG several times
JF: goal -- get things done right -- if HTML WG member wants to
query HTML A11y TF and engage in dialog, should be able to do so
CS: 1) give HTML WG posting permissions to pubilc-html-a11y or make
clear why bounce happening
<scribe> ACTION: MikeSmith - ascertain if can allow posting to
public-html-a11y by anyone subscribed to public-html [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - - ascertain if can allow posting to
public-html-a11y by anyone subscribed to public-html [on Michael(tm)
Smith - due 2010-09-16].
<MikeSmith> ACTION: MikeSmith to check into making it possible for
any HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Check into making it possible for any
HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list [on Michael(tm) Smith -
due 2010-09-16].
MS: can do a copy and paste of email addresses - have categories of
mailing lists: subscriber (receive mail) accept list (not subscribed
but allowed to post to it) -- might have to effect change manually,
but can do that
media subteam update
<JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
JF: user reqs piece done; distilled down into a table "Media
Accessibility Checklist" have to go through user reqs and match to
existing technologies -- basically need to figure out what
technologies are impacted by different reequirements
... captioning section: 1 user req is "render time synchronized
cues..." -- API issues, user preferences, rendering
(visual/audio/textual)
... tag user reqs to reorder and reshift based on technology reqs
... huge need to get this done for yesterday -- media subteam
committed to knuckle down, but need specific feedback from
non-subteam members
... even if only have 15 minutes, please consult
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_Accessibility_Checklist
and tag with a11y requirements; goal is to complete over weekend so
can discuss at TF telecon next week
<Stevef> hello
JF: browsers waiting on us also looking at timeline to integrate
into browsers; urgency comes from fact that UA devs will be shortly
supporting multimedia components of HTML5 and we need to provide
them with the reqs and advice
... if don't have time to edit wiki, put into email and send to JF
RS: people reviewing ATAG 2.0 currently; took me a long time to
process checklist
JF: not a trivial task, but an essential one -- time constraints
outside our control, but if don't complete, we will be left standing
on the station
DS: CSS WG meeting a few weeks ago; pointed out talked about doing
media queries to deliver appropriate media -- try to resurrect idea
-- will make sure mention Media Queries in new charter
RS: continue work begun with DS on this?
DS: not necessary; will follow up in CSS WG
JF: could you or someone from CSS WG take some time to look at
matrix to ascertain what can be handled by CSS
DS: read reqs document over weekend -- there was one obvious one
that jumped out at me; will tag on wiki page
JS: presentation to wider group torpedoed by VOIP problems;
rescheduled to discuss in next hour's telecon
... will present media reqs on HTML WG telecon today
... important that user reqs should not be assumed by wider group --
will ask if something there that shouldn't be there or if something
is missing that should be there -- don't want to conflate the 2
issues
... now is time to speak of user reqs - take-away: this is reqs list
against which we are engineering
... might be useful for this TF to vote on media requirements list
-- subteam thinks has gotten feedback from whole TF, but may want to
log a formal resolution recommending the media a11y reqs
GJR: would a CfC be appropriate
MS: need to know from media subteam if there is anything else other
than what you outlined -- everyone please look at reqs and ensure
that nothing is missing
ARIA mappings subteam update
SF: email to public-html with bugs and responses (rejected or
accepted)
<MikeSmith>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/thread.html#msg87
SF: mapping team identified non-controversial issues; others we need
to discuss -- haven't had meeting for a few weeks, but will meet
next week to discuss outstanding issues we need to respond to
MS: gotten chairs' attention on this; MJS been very responsive
recently
... if have delays, let me know and i'll try to expedite
canvas update
MS: status?
RS: nothing new -- as said in last call we have proposal, but feel
that hixie is giving us the run-around; focusing on ARIA integration
right now - have someone working to resolve issues, once resolved,
will return to canvas
MS: chairs announced timeline (deadline to log bugs is 2010-10-01)
RS: lets get ARIA thing done first; editorial things on ARIA side to
help -- still areas of tension which need to be resolved
JS: discussed last week in terms of next steps: what will caret
drawing API entail?
... discussed in leadership meeting with chairs, so is on their
radar
RS: can also look at apple's proposal about UI events
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JulSep/0006.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JulSep/att-0006/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
RS: privacy concern: exposing specific AT to browser may compromise
user
... would like Cynthia to look at this
... device indepent access on mobile devices less dependent on
keystrokes
drag and drop
RS: gez travelling and on vacation
<MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721
SF: question: is HTML5 dnd implemented in most browsers?
... is it implemented accessibly anywhere
... underscores issue
MS: huge interoperability problem
... if want to use HTML5 dnd willhave hard time getting to work
across multiple browsers
... hard to know how to fix to get to work interoperably
<kliehm> D&d is implemented but broken in most browsers,
particularly the event model
MS: need a fix
RS: proposal from apple includes device independent drag and drop
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2010JulSep/att-0006/UserInterfaceIndependence.html
GJR: refers to previous discussions and work on dnd
RS: apple's proposal needs to be examined from dnd perspective; idea
is UA would determine gestures or keystrokes to execute drag and
everything else; selection to drag needs work
GJR: since there isn't a copy and paste API in HTML5, either one
needs to be added or the workflow for ARIA dnd needs to be adapted
by HTML5 -- that was the end result of gez' investigation
Access-asterisk
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/html/wiki/access
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Access/pf_requirements
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Talk:Access/pf_requirements
JS: clarification on HTML WG bug freeze -- 1 October 2010 -- lends
urgency to our efforts
GJR: should i file
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs as a bug or
as an issue (need/requirements for verbose descriptor)
MS: decision policy doesn't provide us with way to directly escalate
something to be an issue -- can provide spec text itself for
consideration
... issue is that long descriptor isn't addressed in spec at all now
-- will put on next week's agenda
JS: will add to agenda for discussion next week
[ADJOURNED]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: MikeSmith to check into making it possible for any
HTML WG member to post to the a11y TF list [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2010/09/09-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 9 September 2010 19:01:07 UTC