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HTML Accessibility Task Force Minutes for 2 September 2010

From: Martin Kliehm <martin.kliehm@namics.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:45:30 +0200
Message-ID: <4C7FD4AA.1030704@namics.com>
To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>

IRC log:


HTML-A11Y telecon
02 Sep 2010


     Eric_Carlson, Janina, John_Foliot, kliehm, paulc, Michael_Cooper, 
jongund, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, Mike, Marco_Ranon





     * Topics
          1. Actions Review
          2. Subteam Reports
          3. Bugzilla Accessibility
          4. Keyboard Access Requirements
          5. TF Recommendations Followup & Updates
     * Summary of Action Items

<janina> agenda: this

<kliehm> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<paulc> PaulC declines scribe opporunity since I am chairing the Weekly 
WG call today and have to leave early.

Actions Review

<JF> scribe: jongund

<MichaelC> scribe: jongund

MS: Action 47 on SF to file a bug on making autocomplete consistent with 

SF: Will do

MS: No status?

SF: No

Subteam Reports

JS: JS: Bug sub team, did we formalize? MC: We made decisions, but not 
... We talked about responsibilities last week, and the sub teams could 
put up proposals
... Comment on sub teams?
... Any objections of giving them sub team status?

MC: We have had 3 meetings, one as sub team

<kliehm> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bug_Triage

<MichaelC> Bug Triage wiki page

MC: I setup a wiki page for bug triage

<paulc> Could the scribe go on mute? The typing is quite distracting.

MC: We have taken all the items declared as bugs
... We are meeting on Tuesdays

JS: Anyone can participate
... Are you sending out agendas?

<MichaelC> Bugs with high priority

MC: No, but we have not formally set a chair, our agenda is to go 
through bugs

JS: Loosing your audio MC

MC: I am on the noisy microphone
... I pasted in the bugzilla query we are going through

RS: Is this just the HTML specs or does it include canvas

MC: We are using the Accessibility task force key words
... Two weeks ago we talked about the ALT text bugs, they were not 
considered a priority since they were in good hands, canvas the same way

RS: I am concerned about canvas

<kliehm> The key word is #a11yTF, originally triaging #a11y bugs

MC: We would probably send canvas issue to you (RS)

JS: The are many of these meetings going on

MC: Now that we are empowered to make decisions, more people may attend

JS: Thank you MC, I think the team should nominate there own lead
... JF media update, or I can

JF: User requirements document, to the wider working group on the next call
... It is still a fluid living document
... We are trying to map user requirements with different technologies 
we are talking about, enormous question
... We are just trying to identify technologies, there is active working 
being done, the timelines are very aggresive
... There will be a table by this weekend

JS: Questions or discussions?
... JF ARIA Mapping update?

JF: There have been a slew of bugs
... We are waiting for the HTML% editor to respond

<paulc> ... coming off mute

JF: We were lead to believe where we are going with this today, nothing 
so far
... The over arching bug is #10066

PC: I think you have the description exactly correct, I have not seen it 
... We were suppose to get extensibility proposal, that is not here yet
... There is a W3C survey on the licensing of HTML5, so this maybe 
keeping people pretty busy, stay tuned

SF: We were lead to believe the bugs would be responded to by this date

PC: I did too, if he doesn't deliver the report or come, I will take it 
off line

SF: we have been working hard all week, and now I feel we are swinging 
in the wind

JS: I am not what PC can say

SF: I feel some frustration, and now I am not sure where we are going

PC: I am opening a private chat with sam

SF: It is hard to have faith in the process when we do something and then...

JS: SF you have good points and it is in the minutes
... An on going area of work
... Canvas

RS: What has happened with that I submitted the Opera guys, I have not 
heard for 3 weeks
... I would like to have this tied to drawing calls, would help authors
... We have concerns about implementation
... We have concerns from developers about implementation
... We tried CMN approach, he wants it just his way, this a late edition
... SF what do you think?

SF: I am not sure how much it will be to create image maps over canvas, 
it seems doable

RS: You need to rewrite all the AREA implementations, new methods and 
properties, clickable regions, it will be alot of work, CMN has raised this

SF: The addition of usemap which is simplier, but limited, then there is 
full blown, more capabilities

RS: We do not seem to be getting alot of progress

JS: We should try to clear up where we are going
... The caret drawing seems to be a preferred implementation, but we are 
sure if someone will do it, do not have enough spec?

RS: Ian wanted it one minute and then not the next minute
... I have a limited amount of time, so I need to know if we are going 
the caret API route

JS: I don't know if that will work, how to we unblock this, we have some 

RS: Ian said write the defect and we will do it, but then he said he 
would not do, its frustrated with just going through Ian
... I am not sure what to do

JS: I don't if I have an answer for this, but will try to get something 
at next coordination call

RS: PC what is the next step?

PC: JS and the cohairs will need to take this off line, I understand you 
concerns, one side

JS: PC can help, but I want it communicated well, I am not looking for a 
solution today, but we need some

JF: We need an improvement on what is currently there in canvas

SteveF: If we have some improvement, then that might ....

JS: I am status qo for over a year, we put up proposals, I would like to 
see something on the current proposals
... I don't question that there needs to be accessibility for canvas, 
the process has been a discussion topic, no one is happy right now
... This goes all he way to the top in W3C management, we need to 
improve the process, good proposals are not going away, we need to 
figure out how to get unstuck

RS: At least for me If the chairs can get ARIA implementation in HTML5

PC: That sounds like a good idea to me
... It may not move as fast as you want, but at least you have comitter 
on the other side

RS: PC have you heard about the keyboard drag and drop from MS?

PC: it is in my inbox, it is pending

<paulc> Paul to provide background info on keyboard drag and drop from 

<scribe> ACTION: paulc to Provide background keyboard support for drag 
and drop (3 weeks) [recorded in 

<trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Provide background keyboard support for 
drag and drop (3 weeks) [on Paul Cotton - due 2010-09-09].

JS: Mike Smith are you also working on this?
... Are you there?
... We lost mike
... Since we are out of order, PC you asked about Bugzilla

Bugzilla Accessibility

PC: Laura has filed a bug about the decision policy, making bugzilla 
more accessible
... Laura and JS providing me with pointers I could not find


PC: We thought maybe upgrading would improve accessibility, but there 
are still outstanding issues
... I don't think my co-chairs will agree that issue is a blocker
... We need to take this to the W3C to see if they can come up with a 

RS: Isn't this a mozilla project??

JS: It doesn't make sense to make this an HTML5 issue, it is a worthy topic
... The mozilla people will want us to use the latest version, before we 
can suggest accessibility enhancements
... We should log the issue and we need to take it somewhere else

<paulc> Isn't one option to send a message to the Systems team asking 
them to look into this?

JS: We need a path to improve accessibility, but where should this issue 
go, I don't think ou group should own it

RS: Who is responsible for W3C tools?

JS: I was hoping MC would be able to tell us?

<JF> (wondering if we will get back to Item #4: TF Recommendations 
Followup & Updates)

MC: We can't solve the problem of bugzilla accessibility, it is a W3C 
wide issue, I can take it to Hyper text, they may want other, we should 
file bugs with mzozilla
... The issue is about making smart decisions about the tools people 
use, in this case there are not comparable tools, it would be difficult 
to tell people not to use this tool
... But that is outside the mandate of this group

PC: I will take the bull by the horns, I am sending a message to the 
systems team
... I am going to copy the working group co-chairs, I usually get a 
response, I'll see what happens, the HCG would do what I am doing now

JS: this sounds like a reasonable course, we will report back to the 
task force

<kliehm> Current W3C Bugzilla version is 3.2.6, latest stable release at 
Mozilla is 3.6.3

Keyboard Access Requirements

JSL: I was hoping to discuss keyboard access, but GR is sick this week, 
can anyone else talk about this?

TF Recommendations Followup & Updates

JS: followup on our recommendation and disposition in the working group, 
we need to keep this close to our agenda, we have sent 7-8 and 4-5 have 
been processed many of us of the opinion, that longdesc was not handled 
as well as it could have been, and the issue has gone outside of W3C 
space, I am not sure what the next steps for longdesc, but we need a 
coordinated effort and we need to gather additional informatino
... One of the ways is a formal objection it will be more complicated, 
the first level of conversation, gathering of information on use cases, 
there is a wiki now

JF: The question is why was the page was frozen, how do we stop the 

JS: I don't know if we can raise this in the call

JF: If more information is forth coming, can we designate an editor who 
will document the issues and the proposals

JS: There should be a mechansim in W3C space

SF: laura collect information and someone else deleted the content from 
the page, now the page is frozen and new content cannot be added

PC: Do we know who is doing it?

SF: I know who it is and so do JS and JB

PC: I was not aware of the wiki war was going on

JS: I think we need to discuss a remedy

PC: Where is the page?
... I need to go

JS: We need to wrap up here

<JF> Late, but for Paul C: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/LongdescRetention

<kliehm> s/JS: TOPIC: Action Item Review/TOPIC: Action Item Review/
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: paulc to Provide background keyboard support for drag and 
drop (3 weeks) [recorded in 

[End of minutes]
Received on Thursday, 2 September 2010 16:45:59 UTC

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