W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-a11y@w3.org > July 2010

Re: Alt change proposal based on WAI CG advice for HTMLWG Issue 31: Rationale needed. (was FIGCAPTION, @alt, and @labelledby: 3 issues)

From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 09:43:35 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTiniYMKUNLm7UBqcivpmCM6OH_UzPwO6cXfuEUuX@mail.gmail.com>
To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
Cc: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>, Loretta Guarino Reid <lorettaguarino@google.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>
HI laura,

rationale for aria-labelledby:

For visual users and image can have an implied label due to proximity and
placement in relation to the image.
The aria-labelledby attribute provides a method to explicitly associate a
text alternative with an image, like the alt attribute.
The difference being that the text is available to all by default.

I believe the original motivation for proposing to make this an alternative
 to the presence of a non empty alt was to provide more flexibility (in
regards to HTML5 document conformance) to cover uses cases such as photo
galleries where a text alternative may not have been explicitly provided,
but some visible text that labels the image is available. In many cases it
is visually apparent that a heading labels an image (for example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dan65/502468700/), but when you look at the
code [1]  there is NO clear association, aria-labelledby provides that clear
unambiguous association:

<h1 id="heading">wind dog</h1>



<img aria-labelledby="heading">

[1] code between heading and image on

<div id="button_bar" class=""></div><script
F._photo_button_bar).bar_go_go_go(502468700, 0);</script><div><div
id="photo-drag-proxy"></div><div id="photo_notes"
class="photo_notes"><div id="notes_text_div"></div><div
class="photo-note" id="photo-note-72157600225896686"
style="left:292px; top:195px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:25px;
height:17px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:23px; *height:15px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:21px;
height:13px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:24px;">kiss kiss</div></div><div class="photo-note"
id="photo-note-72157617346832721" style="left:30px;
top:47px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:404px;
height:175px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:402px; *height:173px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:400px;
height:171px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:182px;">love those ears!</div></div><div class="photo-note"
id="photo-note-72157620218118255" style="left:0px;
top:45px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:474px;
height:252px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:472px; *height:250px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:470px;
height:248px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:259px;">niec dog thanxx</div></div><div class="photo-note"
id="photo-note-72157621690335905" style="left:188px;
top:115px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:81px;
height:68px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:79px; *height:66px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:77px;
height:64px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:75px;">You can see it wants something...</div></div><div
class="photo-note" id="photo-note-72157621814779460"
style="left:205px; top:225px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:159px;
height:67px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:157px; *height:65px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:155px;
height:63px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:74px;">Smiling... Cute nose...</div></div><div
class="photo-note" id="photo-note-72157623471683545" style="left:20px;
top:20px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:48px;
height:48px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:46px; *height:46px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:44px;
height:44px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:55px;">i love his face<br />
-maya</div></div><div class="photo-note"
id="photo-note-72157623898558965" style="left:20px;
top:20px;"><div><div class="outer-border"><div
class="outer-dimensions" style="width:48px;
height:48px;"></div></div><div class="main-border"><div
class="inner-border" style="*width:46px; *height:46px;"><div
class="inner-dimensions" style="width:44px;
height:44px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="note-text"
style="top:55px;">Dogs &amp; Puppies your online guide to dog breeds,
dog training, dog grooming, dog exercise, health, kennels, collars,
clothing, food, books and more.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.puppies-dogs.info"
type="text/javascript">var page_note_ratio =
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157600225896686', 0, 0, 'ladyLara (
Laura Bālc )', '/photos/ladylara/', 'kiss kiss', null,
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157617346832721', 0, 0, 'Fuschia
Moon', '/photos/29864292@N02/', 'love those ears!', null,
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157620218118255', 0, 0, 'qa_454_ter',
'/photos/27434238@N02/', 'niec dog thanxx\n', null,
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157621690335905', 0, 0, 'Snuff
Stacie', '/photos/snuffstacie/', 'You can see it wants something...',
null, 1);F.decorate(_ge('photo-note-72157621814779460'),
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157621814779460', 0, 0, 'Snuff
Stacie', '/photos/snuffstacie/', 'Smiling... Cute nose...', null,
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157623471683545', 0, 0, 'hello
kitty#1', '/photos/48280735@N07/', 'i love his face\n-maya', null,
F._photo_note).note_go_go_go('72157623898558965', 0, 0, 'brighton66',
'/photos/49834663@N03/', 'Dogs &amp; Puppies your online guide to dog
breeds, dog training, dog grooming, dog exercise, health, kennels,
collars, clothing, food, books and more.\n\n<a
rel=\"nofollow\">www.puppies-dogs.info<\/a>', null,
0);</script><script type="text/javascript"></script></div><div
id="comm_div"></div><div id="rotate_div"></div><div

On 9 July 2010 13:47, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve and all,
> On 7/9/10, Steven Faulkner wrote to Gregory Rosmaita:
> > In the 'WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5'
> > document it was agreed that for HTML5 conformance:
> >
> > <img> is only valid when at least one of the following is true:
> >
> >    - @alt is present (empty or non-empty) *OR*
> >    - @aria-labelledby is present (non-empty only) *OR*
> >    - the <img> is located within a <figure> that has a non-empty
> >    <figcaption>* OR*
> >    - @role="presentation"
> >
> > The above has been around for a year or so and has been discussed, and I
> was
> > under the impression that you were involved in the discussions that
> resulted
> > in the consensus doc.
> >
> > Is what laura has proposed substantially different to the consensus doc
> or
> > have you changed your views on it?
> As you illuminate the change proposal that I drafted, "Replace img
> Guidance for Conformance Checkers" [1] is based on WAI CGs advice [2]
> and is an HTML Accessibility Task Force Recommendation [3] [4].
> What we need for it to be a viable consideration in the HTML Working
> Group decision on the alt issue is rationale provided for
> role="presentation" and aria-labelled. (Janina had asked me to add
> aria-labelled to the proposal back in April [5], which I did [6].)
> Maciej has said [7] what we have provided for rationale [8] in the
> change proposal is insufficient. He has removed the proposal [1] from
> the Change Proposal Status table [9] for consideration in the decision
> on HTML Issue 31 missing alt [10].
> Steve, do you or does anyone else have suggestions for text to add to
> the document which would delineate justification for aria-labelled and
> role="presentation"? I have also copied Loretta and Gregg on this
> email in case they have suggestions for role="presentation" and
> aria-labelled rationale. They both significantly contributed to the
> WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5.
> I believe the deadline to update the alt proposals is July 15. Maciej
> is this correct?
> Again, I would be delighted to update the rationale text for this
> change proposal. It would enable it to be considered, as it no longer
> seems to be a candidate in the offering. If anyone has suggested text
> for rationale section of the change proposal [1] please do let me know
> as soon as possible.
> Thank you very much.
> Best Regards,
> Laura
> [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
> [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5.html
> [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0009.html
> [4] http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/44061/20040422_text-alt/results
> [5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0211.html
> [6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0215.html
> [7] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0213.html
> [8]
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126#aria-labelledby_and_aria-labelled_Attributes
> [9] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-031
> [10] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
Web Accessibility Toolbar -
Received on Saturday, 10 July 2010 08:44:29 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:55:41 UTC