- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:24:50 +0000
- To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
aloha!
minutes from the 4 February 2010 HTML Accessibility Task Forece
teleconference are available as hypertext at:
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-html-a11y-minutes.html
and as an IRC log at:
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-html-a11y-irc
and as plain text following my signature. please log any corrections,
clarifications, mis-attributions, and other comments by replying-to
this announcement on-list.
note that the following RESOLUTION was agreed-to at the 4 Febrauary
2010 teleconference:
RESOLUTION: HTML A11y Task Force will meet in Europe at beginning
of April
the likelihood is a meeting in Brimingham, U.K. hosted by RNIB (thanks
sally!) on 6/7 April 2010, so if you have difficulties with that date,
please let the chairs and staff contacts know by replying to MCooper's
call for objections to holding a meeting at such time and venue, which
is located at:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Feb/0056.html
note that TF members have only until 8 February 2010 to reply to
MCooper's call for objections
gregory.
_________________________________________________________________
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
04 Feb 2010
Agenda:
See also: IRC log [http://www.w3.org/2010/02/04-html-a11y-irc]
Attendees
Present
Gregory_Rosmaita, Cooper, Rich, kliehm, +1.408.307.aaaa,
+0154558aabb, Kelly_Ford, Bruce_Lawson, +1.514.312.aacc,
Steve_Faulkner, Ben_Caldwell, Eric_Carlson, Denis_Boudreau,
Sean_Hayes, [Microsoft], Cynthia_Shelly, Paul_Cotton,
Wendy_Chisholm, Mike, Jon_Gunderson, +1.609.482.aadd,
Markku_Hakkinen, +0190561aaee, SCain
Regrets
Janina_Sajka, Aurélien, Levy, Joshue_O'Connor, Laura_Carlson,
Silvia_Pfeiffer
Chair
Mike_Smith
Scribe
Gregory_Rosmaita
Contents
* Topics
1. Meeting Planning/Agenda Review
2. Task Force Sub-Group Updates
3. Outstanding Action Item Review
4. status on face-to-face meeting plan
5. Media Issues
6. New Issues & Announcements
* Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 04 February 2010
<kliehm> trackbot, start conference
<trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 04 February 2010
<dboudreau> mornin' everyone
<dboudreau> i'm on the call too now
<dboudreau> correct
<paulc> tx
<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> scribenick: oedipus
Meeting Planning/Agenda Review
MS: media issues part of cooper's list from a few weeks ago are high
priority so want to talk about them on the call today
... quick couple of minutes for task force sub-group reports
Task Force Sub-Group Updates
MS: anyone with update on media?
<paulc> Can the person typing (scribe) go on mute?
EC: philip from opera and sylvia and i have been discusssing exposing
track level attributes media elemeents so possible for scripts to
query media files, discover if has CC or descriptive audio, [breaking
up]
... wiki page with summary of thoughts to this point
... welcome feedback from anyone about discussion or contents of wiki
page
... should have more of a report next week
MS: substantial progress, good
... Canvas Sub-Group?
JRG: monday, Canvas sub-group went through examples of use of shadow
DOM - Frank Oliver of MS had a checkbox example, i had an accessible
version of a chart
<eric_carlson> Media TextAssociations wiki page:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_TextAssociations
JRG: FO's checkbox example works functionally with safari and FF; have
to be code changes so shadow DOM code needs to be inside CANVAS
element - doesn't work at this point; good proof of concept
MS: next steps
JRG: writing specification related to work, suggested code changes to
get to work
MS: ownership for spec text?
JRG: don't recall
GJR: i believe RichS was going to write up spec text
minutes from CANVAS call:
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/01-html-a11y-minutes.html
Outstanding Action Item Review
MC: Actions that are due or overdue - all
... Action 2 on Cyns
CS: haven't gotten to it; due date?
MS: originally 24 december 2009, then 28 january 2010
<MikeSmithX> action-2?
<trackbot> ACTION-2 -- Cynthia Shelly to deliver draft of change
proposal for ARIA additions to HTML 5 by 2009-12-24 -- due 2010-01-28
-- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/2
CS: haven't been able to sync up with steve
... can i have 2 more weeks?
MC: relates to meta-grouping of projects will discuss later in call
<MichaelC> action-2 due 18 Feb
<trackbot> ACTION-2 Deliver draft of change proposal for ARIA
additions to HTML 5 by 2009-12-24 due date now 18 Feb
CS: big project
MS: reset to 18 February 2010
MC: action 6 on Rich - CANVAS related issue
... skip canvas ones - will be reviewed in canvas call
GJR: yes
MC: action 8 on Cyns - follow up with IE team about parent/child
relationships
CS: need an additional week
<MichaelC> action-8 due 11 Feb
<trackbot> ACTION-8 Follow up with IE team about whether implementers
are willing to use parent/child/nesting relationships could be used in
mappings logic due date now 11 Feb
MC: action 11 on Wendy - timeline for summary verbiage about what AT
needs to communicate
WC: joshue and gregory and i met and discussed a lot of topics;
deatils element over @summary - good reasons for that usage; cell API
investigated that Cyns proposed; good to have them - at minimum need
collections for colum and row groupings; have some text we 3 agree
with -- will send to list today; questions originally going to answer
was "what is derivable from table markup" what isn't what needs to be;
scaled back to what we expect to get from DOM an
MC: think action closeable; falls under "summary" category
WC: 2 main keywords were Cell API and summary
CS: moving away from derivable from structure towards details, what is
thinking - different dirction than from HTML WG
WC: 1 statement that GJR made was that CAPTION is to @alt as @summary
is to LONGDESC; info that can be derived from tables with cell api -
wahat is derivable needs to be in DOM so all apps can interact with it
... if have rowspan and colspan info easily derivable, would help
create query consistency -- middle road between 2 opinions; want to
keep ascpet of authors to provide explanaion or details - deatils will
be rich so can handle multi-lingual; not just for blind or screen
reader users; may help those with cognative disabilities and
non-native speakers to get better idea
CS: my reading of details is has visible button or link that opens
details; suggested using summary when deatails button not acceptable
WC: propose that @summary be mapped to DETAILS for backwards
compatibility; details would replace @summary
CS: how handle situation where not having anything available ok
GJR: would be availalbe via the DOM
MS: discuss on mailing list after WC posts; know this is something JS
has a lot of interest in -- might be best to wait for her in
discussion
CS: please put on agenda for next week
<MichaelC> close action-11
<trackbot> ACTION-11 - report on timeline for summary verbiage about
what AT needs to communicate and report back to HTML5 A11y TF closed
MC: remaining actions are CANVAS sub-groupo
status on face-to-face meeting plan
MS: face2face times and place -- seems consensus leaning towards
europe in april 2010
MC: question is hosting - 1 specific host candidate have specific
dates, but can also solicit other hosts
... in england could do 6-7 april or 26-29
CS: latter dates confict with WWWConf
MC: london or birmingham
CS: MS has facility in reading
MS: finalize date first then work with hosts?
... april window of opportunity; anyone with strong opinions on early
or late april speak up
CS: what about doing WWW - in Raleigh, North Carolina in april
MS: wonder if Janina can make it
CS: w4a (web4all) going to convene then in Raleigh
MS: strongest possiblity having in europe, most likely england, at
beginning or end of month - if conflicts start of month might be best
MC: earlier is better to sync with HTML WG timeline; bang out issues
at f2f would make HTML WG chairs very happy
MS: good reason to pin to early April 2010
... get offer for hosting at beginning of april in U.K. - already have
one for 6-7 april via RNIB
MC: need to call for objections to date and location
MS: do on list - no objections voiced during call
... need to give those on list opportunity to provide feedback
RESOLUTION: HTML A11y Task Force will meet in Europe at beginning of
April
MS: can talk with sally about hosting at end of call
Media Issues
<MikeSmithX>
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=med
ia
MS: half-hour left
... previous URI has media and a11y keywords
... neeed to determine which ones are highest priority; ones that are
higher are 5758
<MikeSmithX> 5758 insufficient accessibility fallback for <audio> or
<video>
<MikeSmithX> 8187 Section 4.8.7 on video makes no reference to audio
description
MS: second with high priority 8187
... discuss those 2 today
... some feedback on list about this
<MikeSmithX>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Feb/0035.html
MS: sylvia can't be on call due to time differences, but sent very
good response
... sylvia said that 5758 is an open issue for discussion in media
sub-group
... sylvia had comments on 5758 -- 1 comment that applies to all we do
is getting someone to take ownership of writing a concrete proposal
... sylvia also mentioned implementations
... as far as 8187, sylvia said that she considers this unresolved --
MCooper do you concur?
<eric_carlson> +1 from me as well
MC: don't feel qualified to concur or not concur, but willing to take
as reservation; some bugs resolved as "fixed" if sylvia concurs, that
is a plus 1 that i will accept
MS: comments on other issues; under control and don't require
attention of entire TF because no one objected to proposed resolution
MC: sylvia seemed to bump 5758 up in priority; accept her ok for
others
MS: will tag these as a11y
MC: remove others from a11y tf mailing list
MS: getting baack to 5758 - seems to be highest priority
... comments on how to move forward on this expeditiously
[silence]
MS: want to get something concrete out of this
... eric, can you give some insight about progress on issue -- seems
to be linked to what discussed earlier
EC: which issue?
MS: 5758 - fallback for video and audio
EC: specifically the issue we've discussed; to address, first need to
find further API on audio and video element so script has access to
info about what kind of media is in media file, so can decide what to
enable and what to disable for users' need; concentrating on this
first because fundamental to solution
MS: anything blocking progress other than limit of amount of time
EC: time; sylvia mentioned we need to set up media telecons, we've
been doing it all via email so far; at point where talking would move
forward
MS: anything anyone in TF or media group can do to expedite?
EC: not yet
MS: please follow up on list with this -- if can find time to talk by
phone let chairs know
SH: question: direction EC outlining is about working with content -
means not a fallback in sense if i don't understand this content what
do i do?
... a11y info NOT a fallback, but part of the media; it is not
fallback, am i missing something?
EC: may be incorrectly titled issue; 1 of the issues is that media
file can have alternate representations of its content - audio, audio
and video, audio video sub-titles, alternate version s of audio file
or video file; how to expose info in a media file so that scropt can
configure file to display info according to user's needs
SH: no objection to that, just pointing out that that is NOT a
fallback
EC: more work needs to be done, no doubt, but that is starting point
we chose
... either bug incorrectly titled, or need a new bug describing
problem working on now
SH: 2 bugs - what to do for fallback and what do about exposing
various components
MS: worth adding comment to bug issue or Sean can raise additional bug
just to make clear
... title is imprecise -- seems clear that scope of bug is part of,
but not complete, solution; short term priority is work on that part
of solution because momentum built
... would be good for whole TF to meet in alternate time to accomodate
those who can't attend current time
MC: should investigate options, but may want to have media sub-group
have own calls like CANVAS sub-group
MS: greater wider task force needs to be filled in on what media
issues are, what is being persued, what needs to be persued; talking
with sylvia in real-time would be invaluable
... never going to find time that works for everybody, but need to
make effort to enable those working on media to talk
MC: will follow up with MS and JS
MS: week after next would like a detailed media update
MK: question regarding audio/video - alternative not fallback content
-- implementing API for content, isn't it feasible as long as devs and
implementors haven't agreed on video or subtitle format
EC: video and audio independent of work we are doing; whether vendor
supports 1 format or another, media files still have logical concept
of track - streams of diff formats of media in a file (audio, video,
captions, etc.) API would be higher level abstract way for media
element to allow script to configure media contained in file
... since captions data needs to be exposed via script, need to come
up with recommendation on how that might work - we are addressing that
directly
MS: questions, comments?
<MikeSmithX>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Feb/0035.html
MS: end of discussion of media for today -- any other media folks have
comments, please post them to the list and reply to above post from
sylvia
<MikeSmithX> 8659 Media events to indicate captions and audio
descriptions
MS: only other 1 being worked on actively is 8659 about events
... not sure if anything to discuss; discussion on mailing list about
timing model which is what this relates to
EC: does it make sense to expose events floated on list, but don't
recall a reply
MS: 1 thing from Dave Singer is comment on bug - is this really right
way to solve problem was question he raised
... weren't any responses
... will poke dave to have him re-ask question to solicit responses
... nothing else in discussion; no direct reply to DSinger's message,
rest of discussion didn't touch on DS' question so is still open
... can ask DSinger to update us on it
... resolve for today about set of issues: 2 we need to keep open as
issues for a11y TF are 8659 and 5758
... rest of issues, remain open in bugzilla -- anyone welcome to
discuss or follow up on them;
... next week, @summary discussion and review set of issues associated
with @summary to find out which need to add to high priority list
... Janina will be chairing next week - focus: forward progress on
summary
<MichaelC> Media related bugs taken up by the TF:
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords_type=allwords&keywo
rds=a11ytf+media
MS: call next week at same time
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/html/wiki/Meetings
New Issues & Announcements
RS: when is HTML A11y TF meeting for f2f
MS: talking about april 6/7 2010 in england; or another time close to
beginning of apirl in U.K. probably london
SC: at moment have space in conference facility in birmingham office
-- london booked; 6/7 april are free; also opening week of 26th april
MS: leaning towards beginning of month--aim for 6/7 april 2010
MC: do we want to settle on that or investigate other hosting options
around that date?
MS: cyns checking on MS hosting in reading, but would gladly ceede to
RNIB
... propose to TF april 6/7 in birmingham, u.k. hosted by RNIB
RS: trying to schedule another trip around that time, so need to find
out soon
MC: can send call for objections email with plan
MS: yes, please do -- earliest decision the best
2 minute warning
RS: heads up: looking at attributes for HTML that can be triggered via
CSS Media Queries -- what is best way to do that?
MS: go directly to CSS WG mailing list (www-style) to give them heads
up and request discussion
... inform CSS WG on their mailing list
RS: CANVAS sub-group agreed to create accessibleDOM binding for
CANVAS; MS, Paciello Group, Mozilla, Apple working on it; Hixie says
"fallback content sufficient" doesn't understand problem; how do we
make progress -- doing implementations
MS: way to address getting wording into spec is write change proposal
& bring to attention of chairs and WG -- first step; if hixie as
editor is resolved not to make requested change to spec, then is up to
chairs to put forward a survey or some other method of inquiry
... first thing - concrete change proposal that addresses concern
RS: i'm doing that, but i can't camp out on public-html and get
carpet-bombed over tangental and philosophical issues; if put out for
survey, going to have people voting out of ignorance
MS: not voting per se; microdata split came down to chairs loooking at
arguments and objectyions put forward and then making informed
educated decision about strongest arguments and weakest objections; if
comes down to standoff on this, chairs will review available info and
make decision
RS: will give CSS WG a heads up
MS: HTML WG call starting now - ADJOURN
my "pleasure"
<dboudreau> cya guys
previous: http://www.w3.org/2010/01/28-html-a11y-minutes.html
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 4 February 2010 17:25:19 UTC