- From: Booth, David (HP Software - Boston) <dbooth@hp.com>
- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 04:31:51 +0000
- To: Jeremy Carroll <jjc@hpl.hp.com>
- CC: "public-grddl-wg@w3.org" <public-grddl-wg@w3.org>, "patrick.stickler@nokia.com" <patrick.stickler@nokia.com>, "chris@bizer.de" <chris@bizer.de>, Phil Archer <parcher@icra.org>
Thanks, the examples are quite helpful. I was not aware that it was possible to do that with RDF/XML. While I definitely think a GRDDL-based approach is a good way to go, there are a couple of aspects of doing a GRDDL transformation of RDF/XML to produce more RDF that make me uncomfortable. 1. It relies on a corner feature of RDF/XML, though perhaps it is only a corner feature to me. Maybe to others it is a central feature. :) 2. It makes the semantics of an RDF/XML document less clear, because to a non-GRDDL aware receiver, the document conveys only the triples directly serialized in the RDF/XML, whereas to a GDDL-aware receiver, it conveys additional triples. If a document is served as application/rdf+xml, the recipient should be able to look at the RDF/XML spec to determine its semantics. But the RDF/XML spec does not reference the GRDDL spec. To an extent, we can finesse this ambiguity by recalling GRDDL's "faithful rendition" clause http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#sec_rend and taking the position that if the additional triples from the GRDDL transformation are all *entailments* from the base triples, then the resulting merged set of triples could legitimately be viewed as a "faithful rendition" of the original document. However, that is very error prone, because essentially the same information is being conveyed in two different ways: once through the directly serialized triples and their entailments, and again through the GRDDL results. So regarding POWDER, I would be quite uncomfortable with POWDER using this RDF/XML + GRDDL approach. I also don't see any benefit to it over an XML + GRDDL approach. To be clear, by an "XML + GRDDL" approach I mean: define POWDER in terms of abstract RDF, but also define a custom XML format whose semantics are *entirely* defined by the RDF resulting from its GRDDL transformation. This would give the combined benefits of: - a concise XML serialization for those who want it, so XML tools can be used if desired; - clear semantics (given by GRDDL-generated RDF); and - compatibility with the Semantic Web, so standard RDF tools can also be used. Regarding GRDDL, I think it was a mistake to include that feature in the GRDDL spec. I think it would have been better to say that the GRDDL results of an RDF/XML document -- or any other RDF serialization, for that matter -- are *only* the RDF graph represented by that document. In any event, GRDDL test case http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#grddlonrdf is clearly flawed and should be corrected or deleted in an erratum, because the GRDDL spec at http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#rule_rdfxbase talks about a "conforming RDF/XML document" http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#rule_rdfxbase but, assuming the RDF Validator is correct, the input of that test case is not a conforming RDF/XML document. David Booth, Ph.D. HP Software +1 617 629 8881 office | dbooth@hp.com http://www.hp.com/go/software Opinions expressed herein are those of the author and do not represent the official views of HP unless explicitly stated otherwise. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Carroll [mailto:jjc@hpl.hp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:00 AM > To: Booth, David (HP Software - Boston) > Cc: public-grddl-wg@w3.org; patrick.stickler@nokia.com; > chris@bizer.de; Phil Archer > Subject: Re: Multiple GRDDL results in a single transform??? > GRDDL and Named Graphs > > Booth, David (HP Software - Boston) wrote: > > > Can you please show an example? If the input for test case > > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests#grddlonrdf > > were converted to this form, what would it look like? > > > Sorry for delay in replying ... > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddlonrdf.rdf doesn't include a > typed node ... > > This means that we can't use the namespace doc method but > (referring to > http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-syntax-grammar/#start > ) > We can serve the following doc with mimetype application/rdf+xml: > > <rdf:Description > xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" > xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/" > xmlns:con="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact#" > xmlns:data-view="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view#" > data-view:transformation="foaf2con.xsl" > rdf:about="http://musicbrainz.org/mm-2.1/album/6b050dcf-7ab1-4 > 56d-9e1b-c3c41c18eed2"> > <foaf:maker> > <foaf:Agent > rdf:about="http://musicbrainz.org/mm-2.1/artist/33b3c323-77c2- > 417c-a5b4-af7e6a111cc9"> > <foaf:name>The Jimi Hendrix Experience</foaf:name> > </foaf:Agent> > </foaf:maker> > > </rdf:Description> > > This has one extra triple over and above the original, since the > data-view:transformation is treated as a property attribute. > > Adding a type triple instead, we could also serve the > following as rdf/xml: > > > <eg:DummyType > xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" > xmlns:foaf="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/" > xmlns:con="http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/contact#" > xmlns:eg="http://example.org/namespace#" > rdf:about="http://musicbrainz.org/mm-2.1/album/6b050dcf-7ab1-4 > 56d-9e1b-c3c41c18eed2"> > <foaf:maker> > <foaf:Agent > rdf:about="http://musicbrainz.org/mm-2.1/artist/33b3c323-77c2- > 417c-a5b4-af7e6a111cc9"> > <foaf:name>The Jimi Hendrix Experience</foaf:name> > </foaf:Agent> > </foaf:maker> > > </eg:DummyType> > > And at http://example.org/namespace.rdf we have a namespace doc > including the triple > > <http://example.org/namespace#> > dataview:namespaceTransformation > <????/foaf2con.xsl> . > > Jeremy > > > > > > >
Received on Thursday, 24 January 2008 04:33:38 UTC