W3C

GRDDL Working Group

7 Feb 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
JohnClark, Chimezie_Ogbuji, rreck, HarryH, DanC, Ben_Adida, danja, briansuda, Simone, bwm
Regrets
IanD
Chair
Harry Halpin
Scribe
Chime

Contents


<HarryH> Scribe: Chime

Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-02-07T11:00-0500

<DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0023.html

<john-l>

<HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 31 Jan 2007 as a true record: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/att-0017/31-grddl-wg-minutes-edited.html

RESOLUTION: GRDDL WG Weekly minutes from 31 Jan, 2007 approved

[#issue-http-header-links]

<DanC> Ian's action is done to my satisfaction

Chime: I think it is close to out of scope and I'm concerned about outstanding effort (rec tracks and such)

HarryH: doesn't think it is out of scope

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0018.html

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0019.html

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0020.html

DanC: Asked a few people, some implementers think it is a good thing to do

<DanC> DanC: I have not yet found inspiration to implement it

HarryH: We have to consider last call timeline

<HarryH> Will people find inspiration to implement before Last Call is finished?

bwm: Had a brief word with Jeremy. No strong opinion on if it is a good thing. Recommends a short time to implement. Will back off if runs into trouble

bwm: How will we test this

bwm: Can we configure the test server to support test cases?

<HarryH> This test-case would require W3C Staff Contact (DanC) to change .htaccess

Test cases are needed if we go forward with this

<DanC> harry, don't put words in my mouth. anybody with cvs access can edit .htaccess. bwm has cvs access.

bwm: Dependencies on IETF

<HarryH> That's me who said that :)

<HarryH> Not DanC

danja: How does this relate to mnot's proposal?

somebody: Link header is registered, the profile is not

danja: In favor of accepting subject to a test case and IETF acceptance

DanC: any volunteers for testing and such?

bwm: Jeremy suggested creating a test case and configuring .htaccess

DanC: IanD has done everything we asked for this proposal

<scribe> ACTION: bwm (Jeremy) attempt a test-case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<DanC> (harry, I think this is the chair's call... do you detect a critical mass of support? if so, do a straw poll and/or put the question.)

<HarryH> 7 yeses, 1 no (Chime).

<HarryH> 1 absention

<DanC> PROPOSED: to add the GRDDL header to the GRDDL spec and test suite, per IanD's proposal contingent on IETF registration of Profile header

DanC: thinks this is a now or never situation

<HarryH> Chime is concerned about testing and dependencies on protocol-level.

<HarryH> PROPOSED: to add the GRDDL header to the GRDDL spec and test suite, per IanD's proposal [@@link] contingent on IETF registration of Profile header and feeedback from bwm/jeremy's test-case creation.

HarryH: add to proposal other dependencies (IETF,e tc)

<DanC> PROPOSED: to add the GRDDL header to the GRDDL spec, per IanD's proposal contingent on IETF registration of Profile header, and on succesful test experience

<HarryH> testing for conesnsus?

<HarryH> on that proposal - yes or no?

<benadida> abstain, but sounds good overall

<HarryH> Agreement to drop Ian's proposal if either IETF and test-case runs into difficulties.

<DanC> so RESOLVED

<HarryH> RESOLUTION: to add the GRDDL header to the GRDDL spec, per IanD's

<HarryH> RESOLVED: to add the GRDDL header to the GRDDL spec, per IanD's proposal [@@link] contingent on IETF registration of Profile header, and on succesful test experience

contingent on IETF registration of Profile header, and on succesful test experience

Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents

<HarryH> CVS access?

benadida: No time to add / edit RDF/a test cases

bwm: Has CVS access

<benadida> continued

<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#issue-mt-ns

<HarryH> This issue is still unresolved.

<HarryH> Need to figure out what it would take to resolve it.

[#issue-mt-ns]

<HarryH> What would require to close this?

<HarryH> DanC: faithful-infoset has split off, test case needs to be done.

<HarryH> DanC: has had some inspiration.

<HarryH> Chime: mentions John Clarks' suggestion.

<HarryH> DanC: Make two tests, large test and small test.

<HarryH> DanC: slot for implemenation in test-suite includes flags for options like XInclude

<HarryH> HarryH: flags are controlled by harness commandline

<HarryH> DanC: Suggets two tests.

There are tests which have XInclude directives

<DanC> xinclude test is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist3

<HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist3.html#xinclude

<scribe> ... ongoing conversation about setting up for testing faithful-infoset issues XInclude ..

<DanC> ACTION: Chime to work on details of 2 allowed results of xinclude test [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]

<DanC> danc suggests 2 tests that share an input

<HarryH> how a GRDDL client interacts with a document whose root element is an XSLT literal result element

<HarryH> Jeremy suggests we duck.

<HarryH> Chime: bwm raised concerns with various other contents.

DanC: is fine with issue-mt-ns issues with regards to bwm

<HarryH> ACTION: To review #issue-mt-ns to see if comments still needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]

bwm: it might be a moot issue

scribe: reading through items in issue-mt-ns ..

<HarryH> whether RDF/XML statements labelled as application/xml constitute a "document whose meaning includes the RDF statement ... we decided "yes" you can sniff root-node.

<HarryH> what happens if data-view:transformation is given on an rdf:RDF root element

<HarryH> DanC: My feeling is spec says that there is another GRDDL result.

<HarryH> DanC: thinks we ignore result from that.

<HarryH> Chime: I think we'd treat it as XML GRDDL Source.

<HarryH> This sounds like a test-case.

DanC: green boxes in spec addresses issue

<DanC> PROPSED: that the current rules address issue-mt-ns

DanC: don't need a test case to decide

bwm: Rules don't call out rdf:RDF so we are fine

<DanC> "If an information resource IR is represented by a conforming RDF/XML document[RDFX], then the RDF graph represented by that document is a GRDDL result of IR"

DanC: implementors may have their own policy

HarryH: we may need more test cases

<HarryH> Chime: Should we mess two test-cases

<HarryH> Chime: is this dependent on mime-types?

<HarryH> Any takers?

DanC: leave testing in 'someday pile'

HarryH: don't want last call dependent on this case

<HarryH> ACTION: Harry to make 2 test-cases for "what happens if data-view:transformation is given on an rdf:RDF root elemen" serving two different media-types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]

<benadida> (I have to run in 5 minutes, seminar.)

HarryH: 3 options..

HarryH: just RDF graph, just the extracted RDF, the merge of both

bwm: test 1: RDF graph itself, test2: just the extracted RDF

<HarryH> all 3 should be written.

DanC: don't multiplex multiple outputs from a *single* test case

<DanC> PROPSED: that the current rules (1.206) address issue-mt-ns

<HarryH> PROPOSED: The current text and rules of the editor's draft adequately addresses #issue-mt-ns

<benadida> abstain

<HarryH> RESOLVED: The current text and rules of the editor's draft adequately addresses #issue-mt-ns

<HarryH> 2 abstains

<rreck> rreck abstains

<HarryH> BenA and Ron abstrains.

<benadida> gotta run, I'll read minutes for further discussions.

<HarryH> 'open world assumption' in testing...

<rreck> victory

<DanC> whee! we closed the last issue!

<john-l> Hooah

<bwm> Harumph!

Test cases for GRDDL with XML documents

[#issue-output-formats] whether GRDDL transformations may produce RDF in a format other than RDF/XML

<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec#txforms

<DanC> ACTION:DanC to write rules about XSLT 1.0 processing context [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]

<DanC> ACTION:BenA to write a sample hGRDDL transformation [WITHDRAWN] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]

DanC: GRDDL agent protocol trace give enough guidance to implementors for issue-output-formats

<DanC> (enough... I hope)

bwm: does test server does con-neg?

bwm: change test manifest to allow a test to do content negotiation for a particular mime-type

bwm: replace URI with bnode (place holder for URI and mime-type)

DanC: why not add a field for accept header

<HarryH> Just keep me public-grddl-wg updated with progress,.

[#issue-base-param]

bwm: manifest (for tests) any mechanical linkage between the hosted HTML and ...

DanC: there is a makefile

<HarryH> makefile gets RDF out of HTML test file html

[#issue-base-param]

I thought base-param issue was closed

<DanC> baseURI.rdf revision 1.2 date: 2007/02/07 15:12:09

<DanC> revision 1.3 date: 2007/02/07 14:20:14 baseURI.html bwm: Fixed grddl:transformation attribute to point to correct transform

<HarryH> Anyone want to check this?

<HarryH> ACTION: DanC to double-check bwm's test-case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]

Primer Document

the text has been sent to the listserv

<HarryH> Jan 31st.

<DanC> GRDDL XML use case http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jan/0086.html

<HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to check that into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]

GRDDL Spec: General issues

<DanC> ACTION: Chime to propose some primer text for the hl7 case [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]

<HarryH> Chime: Concern about terms in rules.

<HarryH> Chime: In particular, rules that generating functions.

<scribe> log:includes

<HarryH> Chime: Thinks logi:uri/log:includes need more explanation as they are generating, i.e. logical functions

<HarryH> DanC: Not sure what Chime means, thinks they "refer to two terms in a graph"

<HarryH> Chime: Produces example where one part of relation is a string

<HarryH> DanC: String is in graph

<HarryH> DanC: Explanation in separate file?

<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec_rules

<HarryH> Chime: Documentation is a proof.

<DanC> "# log http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/log#. @@explain log:uri in terms of [WEBARCH]"

<HarryH> Chime: wants human-readable text as well.

<HarryH> SPARQL Query patterns describe rule parts

Primer Document

<DanC> ACTION: IanD to sort out SPARQL Query [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action11]

I will pick up scribe cleanup duties when I return

<DanC> cool, chimezie

<HarryH> Fabien?

<DanC> HH: I made some progress on ACTION: Harry to add Jane schedule to RDFa

<FabienG> Yes

<HarryH> Slight issue with your XSLT.

<HarryH> See my e-mail and example, see if you can help me sort this:

<HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0043.html

<HarryH> Fabien, can you take my action over here?

<FabienG> I saw your email, I haven't check the details but I think my XSLT is missing that case.

<HarryH> Just fix that and we're in business for RDFa in Primer.

<HarryH> Primer a note or should we go through W3C Rec?

<HarryH> DanC - want document to teach you GRDDL easy to find.

<FabienG> I should have a day off Sunday, I will try to find the time to adress that if I have electricity.

<HarryH> ACTION: Danja to read primer and give us thumbs up or thumbs down. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action12]

<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html Revision 1.37 2007/02/07 15:09:22

<FabienG> Yes, if I ever happen to be in the critical path, just short-cut me.

<HarryH> Fabien, can you make it to next meeting?

<HarryH> live over telecon?

<DanC> Fabien, any strong feelings on whether to take the use cases document to REC or to WG Note?

<DanC> I lean, mildly, toward WG Note for workload reasons.

<DanC> we can wait for you to think about it a bit

<HarryH> I'd like to see it Rec due to GRDDL Charter including use-cases.

<john-l> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0038.html for some review of that document (new today).

<FabienG> I have no strong feeling: I don't realize what difference it makes for a use case document.

<DanC> John's use case review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0038.html

<briansuda> i can

<FabienG> I won't be able to make it to the next telecon, I will be in the plane on my way back to France.

<HarryH> ACTION: Danja and BrianSuda to read Use-Case Document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action13]

<DanC> ok, noted, Fabien

GRDDL Spec: General issues

<HarryH> # ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [CLOSED]

<DanC> ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action14]

<HarryH> ACTION: DanC to add a sample implementation appendix to the GRDDL spec [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action15]

<HarryH> ACTION: John and Danja to read and give thumbs up and down for Spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action16]

<danja> ok, need to put log on fire

<DanC> ADJOURN

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: bwm (Jeremy) attempt a test-case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: DanC to double-check bwm's test-case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: Danja and BrianSuda to read Use-Case Document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Danja to read primer and give us thumbs up or thumbs down. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action12]
[NEW] ACTION: Harry to make 2 test-cases for "what happens if data-view:transformation is given on an rdf:RDF root elemen" serving two different media-types [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: HarryH to check Chime's text on HL7 Use-Case into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: John and Danja to read and give thumbs up and down for Spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action16]
[NEW] ACTION: Bwm: To review #issue-mt-ns to see if comments still needed. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action03]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Chime to work on details of 2 allowed results of xinclude test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action02]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Chime to propose some primer text for the hl7 case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: DanC to add a sample implementation appendix to the GRDDL spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action15]
[DONE] ACTION: DanC to write rules about XSLT 1.0 processing context [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Fabien to post to sawsdl list relevant questions about RDF mapping and relationship to GRDDL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action14]
[DONE] ACTION: IanD to sort out SPARQL Query [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action11]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: BenA to write a sample hGRDDL transformation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html#action07]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2007/02/07 18:10:16 $