- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 20:49:11 +0100
- To: Makx Dekkers <mail@makxdekkers.com>
- CC: 'Fadi Maali' <fadi.maali@deri.org>, 'Chris Beer' <chris@codex.net.au>, 'Phil Archer' <phila@w3.org>, 'Richard Cyganiak' <richard@cyganiak.de>, 'Ghislain Atemezing' <auguste.atemezing@eurecom.fr>, 'Public GLD WG' <public-gld-wg@w3.org>
Hi Makx, Ah, OK. In this case I guess that removing "(e.g., the ADMS profile of DCAT)" from my suggestion would lead to an acceptable sentence? Antoine > Antoine, > > The statement that ADMS prescribes the creation of a new Asset for any > change is not true. As I wrote before, it depends on your perspective > and the type of Asset/Dataset that you're looking at. > > Makx. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 5:00 PM >> To: Fadi Maali >> Cc: Chris Beer; Phil Archer; Richard Cyganiak; Ghislain Atemezing; >> Public GLD WG >> Subject: Re: Resolving DCAT/ADMS Versioning (was Re: Naive question on >> DCAT versioning) >> >> Hi all, >> >> Despite the discusison, I think the proposed addition do make the >> situation clearer. >> >> Perhaps one can clarify by adding something like this for the note on >> dcterms:modified: >> >> "The use of this term implies that a change has been made to the >> dataset. Note that in some situations (e.g., the ADMS profile of DCAT) >> the use of this term will be prescribed by the approach to versioning, >> which may go as far as requiring any dataset change to lead to the >> creation of a new version of the dataset, identified by a specific >> URI." >> >> Best, >> >> Antoine >> >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> DCAT doesn't have a concept of versioning. It is left to the >> publisher to decide whether a modification to a dataset is considered >> a new version or not. >>> Therefore, dct:modified can be used in case the publisher chooses >> not to support versions. dct:modified is also needed in case the data >> is modified since it was created however the catalog only lists the >> latest version of the dataset. >>> >>> I suggest we add only the first text suggested by Phil to Section 4 >> (Vocabulary Overview): >>> >>> "DCAT does not have a prescribed concept of versioning. It is up to >> the implementer whether a modification creates a new dataset or is >> simply a more recently modified version of the same dataset. A >> versioning mechanism is defined for ADMS which is a profile of DCAT." >>> >>> Regards, >>> Fadi >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> Fadi Maali >>> PhD student @ Insight Galway (formerly DERI) >>> Irish Research Council Embark Scholarship holder >>> http://www.deri.ie/users/fadi-maali >>> >>> On 30 Oct 2013, at 15:46, Chris Beer <chris@codex.net.au> wrote: >>> >>>> All >>>> >>>> Prehaps we need to define what we mean by version in order >> sucessfully conclude the discussion? (My previous +1 stands in that I >> feel the rewrite as proposed makes more sense than the original.) >>>> >>>> Richard does raise a valid point - when does a change stop being an >> "edit" a.k.a modification, and start being a new version. Is it enough >> as Ghislain says to make any change at all a change event and use prov >> to detail the change and extent? >>>> >>>> (By the same token, a new version may not necessarily be a >> modification in practice but only in the metadata - for instance a >> document (or dataset) going from draft to final without modification >> other than the doc review status which is metadata.) >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Chris Beer >>>> Australia >>>> >>>> Sent from my Sony XperiaT smartphone >>>> >>>> ---- Richard Cyganiak wrote ---- >>>> >>>>> Phil, >>>>> >>>>> The two proposed amendments appear to contradict each other. The >> first one says that DCAT doesn't prescribe a particular notion of >> versioning. I agree. The second one says that the use of :modified >> indicates a change that was small enough not to require a new version. >> This implies that certain changes would require a new version of a >> dataset and hence would require something that DCAT cannot provide. I >> disagree with that, and it contradicts the earlier statement. It also >> seems to imply that a new version is not a modification, which I find >> bizarre. >>>>> >>>>> Richard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 29 Oct 2013, at 18:54, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> There was an active discussion on 31st July this year prompted by >> a question Antoine raised with me. It was not actually resolved >> however and so I am trying to do that here. I've re-read through the >> thread and believe that no substantive changes are necessary, however, >> two editorial changes would be useful as follows. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In Section 4, Vocabulary Overview, the paragraph that begins >> "Notice that a dataset in DCAT is defined as... " should be appended >> with: >>>>>> >>>>>> "DCAT does not have a prescribed concept of versioning. It is up >> to the implementer whether a modification creates a new dataset or is >> simply a more recently modified version of the same dataset. A >> versioning mechanism is defined for ADMS which is a profile of DCAT." >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the definition and usage note for dcat:Dataset is correct >> as is, however, the usage note for dct:modified, which currently reads >> "The value of this property indicates a change to the actual dataset, >> not a change to the catalog record. An absent value may indicate that >> the dataset has never changed after its initial publication, or that >> the date of last modification is not known, or that the dataset is >> continuously updated." >>>>>> >>>>>> should be appended with: >>>>>> >>>>>> "The use of this term implies that a change has been made but >> that this is not sufficient to have created a new version of the >> dataset. New versions of a dataset should be identified and cataloged >> separately." >>>>>> >>>>>> These changes, I hope, clarify that DCAT does not have a concept >> of versioning, that ADMS does, and that whether a modification does or >> does not create a new version is application-specific. The essential >> semantics, however, are unchanged. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 31/07/2013 19:45, Ghislain Atemezing wrote: >>>>>>> Dear Antoine, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry if I missed your point in my previous mail... >>>>>>>> @Ghislain: I'm not sure I understand your point: "as far as it >> is reflected in the metadata, such as dct:modified" seems to hint that >> you're just updating an existing instance of dcat:Dataset. But my >> point is about when there is a *new resource* of dcat:Dataset, as >> explained above. >>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/#Class:_Dataset does not say >> anything about whether such treatment is allowed or discouraged in >> DCAT. And thus if ADMS is compliant with DCAT or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now that I read the entire thread with Makx, I understand better >> your point. And I agree there is nothing at the moment in DCAT to >> handle that issue properly. >>>>>>> I wonder if this issue of versioning affects only DCAT. Maybe >> one solution could be to help the user by clarifying it somewhere in >> the spec; or maybe handling it like in the ORG vocabulary [1] by >> creation >>>>>>> a dcat:DataSetEvent by linking to PROV-O vocabulary (e.g: with >> prov:wasDerivedFrom property). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Ghislain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/#org:ChangeEvent >>>>>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#wasDerivedFrom >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Archer >>>>>> W3C eGovernment >>>>>> >>>>>> http://philarcher.org >>>>>> +44 (0)7887 767755 >>>>>> @philarcher1 >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > >
Received on Wednesday, 30 October 2013 19:49:40 UTC