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Re: Resolving ISSUE-14, dcat:permanentIdentifier

From: John Erickson <olyerickson@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 16:19:33 -0400
Message-ID: <CAC1Gg8SXQ6=5hJceRDq7-majvWEfqtCn7d2k2rRcA+WpAqgFzA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Cyganiak <richard@cyganiak.de>
Cc: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>, public-gld-wg@w3.org
Hi Guys!

> Let me clarify that the current spec *does not* include anything like dcat:permanentIdentifier

Okay...

> Some time ago, I proposed adding such a property, as it seems important. That's ISSUE-14. But since it appeared that we couldn't get consensus, and in the interest of moving forward, I now proposed to POSTPONE the issue, in other words, do nothing.
>
> Phil, you seem to be hating dcat:permanentIdentifier, but also give a -1 to my proposal of doing nothing?
>
> John, you say that you agree with Phil, but it sounds like you actually *want* dcat:permanentIdentifier?

Sorry; I was confused as to the root objection. I thought PhilA was
arguing for keeping it, not arguing against doing something (I was
arguing for doing something).

> John, just *how much* do you want it? I read this as saying that you will formally object to DCAT moving forward, unless we add dcat:permanentIdentifier?

dcat:permanentIdentifier is semantic sugar that might be nice but is
not required (IMHO) to move forward. So I'm not highly motivated...

> John, the spec *does* point out the possibility of using dc:identifier (with a literal value), which I think is sufficient for DOIs etc.

+1 to this, and I am happy with this. Furthermore, I do not see
anything restricting multiple instances of dc:identifier, a fact which
accommodates multiple identifiers.

Ship it without dcat:permanentIdentifier ...

>
> Best,
> Richard
>
>
> On 8 Mar 2013, at 12:57, John Erickson wrote:
>
>> +1 to Phil's comments and -10 to dropping dcat:permanentIdentifier
>>
>> With the advent of DataCite DOIs and other PIDs for scientific data
>> including EPIC and (soon to be announced) DCO-IDs --- all based on the
>> Handle System --- and with the emerging application of DCAT to
>> research data management, I strongly endorse inclusion of a field for
>> the PID.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote:
>>> Instinctively I dislike this intensely. It encourages bad practice by
>>> suggesting that identifiers for data sets should all be treated as ephemeral
>>> except the special case of the dcat:permanentIdentifier. Gah!
>>>
>>> If you create a catalogue as an aggregate of other catalogues (like
>>> publicdata.eu) then you jolly well SHOULD use the original URIs from the
>>> original catalogue. If you don't/can't/won't, then at least have the decency
>>> to include owl:sameAs links.
>>>
>>> As ever, I am aware that I take a purist view and that practicality can play
>>> a trump card - meaning that if there are cases where the reason for wanting
>>> permanentIdentifier is something a lot better than "we like the way we do it
>>> so we're going to use our lovely foo.aspx?sessionID=claptrap" URIs but we
>>> recognise that your well designed
>>> http://{domain}/{type}/{concept}/{reference} URI might have something going
>>> for it" then OK, I won't be intransigent - but I don't like it.
>>>
>>> So, -1 from me, but I remain open to persuasion if the evidence is there.
>>>
>>> Phil.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/03/2013 11:26, Richard Cyganiak wrote:
>>>>
>>>> There are two remaining issues on DCAT that we couldn't address in the
>>>> telco. A Proposals for one of them is below. If you have any objection to
>>>> the proposed course of action, please say so via email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ISSUE-14: add dcat:permanentIdentifier property
>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/14
>>>>
>>>> With some regret, I have to say:
>>>>
>>>> PROPOSAL: Postpone ISSUE-14, as there is no consensus on such a property.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Phil Archer
>>> W3C eGovernment
>>>
>>> http://philarcher.org
>>> +44 (0)7887 767755
>>> @philarcher1
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John S. Erickson, Ph.D.
>> Director, Web Science Operations
>> Tetherless World Constellation (RPI)
>> <http://tw.rpi.edu> <olyerickson@gmail.com>
>> Twitter & Skype: olyerickson
>>
>



-- 
John S. Erickson, Ph.D.
Director, Web Science Operations
Tetherless World Constellation (RPI)
<http://tw.rpi.edu> <olyerickson@gmail.com>
Twitter & Skype: olyerickson
Received on Monday, 11 March 2013 20:20:03 UTC

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