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Re: Asynchronous submission is the default?

From: Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:55:49 +0200
Message-ID: <46B8F875.3020708@orbeon.com>
To: "Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>

John & all,

Well in our case (not a browser-based implementation) asynchronous is
more difficult than synchronous. This is probably the case for other
implementors, like Chiba. So there will be implementors for which one
or the other way is more difficult to implement. This is fine, as long
as we don't make it incredibly difficult (or even impossible) to
implement for a particular (and common) category of implementations.

But "natural" is relative. Sure, XHR does async. But we have quite
typical use cases where we send several submissions in sequence, one
needing the result of the the previous one. If async becomes the
default, all the submissions will have to be marked with
mode="synchronous", a clear incompatibility with XForms 1.0.

Maybe another solution would be to allow using xforms:submission as an
action: then, being in the flow of a series of actions, it would
naturally in this case default to synchronous, while a top-level
xforms:submission would still default to async. You would write things

   <xforms:insert .../>
   <xforms:setvalue .../>
   <xforms:submission action="..." .../>
   <xforms:submission .../>
   <xforms:whatever .../>


 > Hi Erik,
 > First, to answer as an implementer, we also implemented synchronous
 > submission because this is what XForms 1.0 called for.
 > I believe the issue was discussed in June 2006.  When it was discussed,
 > it turned out that many implementers who were building for client-side
 > web browsers did not believe that the spec said this.
 > The spec says it quite clearly, and when faced with the text, the
 > response was that they assumed the spec was obviously in error since
 > asynchronous submission was more natural for the web and that it was
 > probably quite difficult for them to even implement synchronous
 > submission. This is my chance to reiterate that it is up to *all of us*
 > not to let the spec get out of synch with our reality like this.  If
 > anyone thinks the spec is wrong, it is more work to raise an issue but
 > we really need you to do so.
 > Anyway, putting the process soapbox aside for the moment, the above
 > arguments caused the WG to decide that asynchronous should be the
 > default for 1.1.  I think that if implementer feedback suggests that
 > synchronous operation is indeed too hard to implement, then the
 > conformance section could reduce it to recommended (rather than the
 > current level of required).  But this feedback is most likely to occur
 > during CR.
 > Cheers,
 > John M. Boyer, Ph.D.
 > STSM: Lotus Forms Architect and Researcher
 > Chair, W3C Forms Working Group
 > Workplace, Portal and Collaboration Software
 > IBM Victoria Software Lab
 > E-Mail: boyerj@ca.ibm.com
 > Blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/JohnBoyer
 > *Erik Bruchez <ebruchez@orbeon.com>*
 > Sent by: public-forms-request@w3.org
 > 08/07/2007 02:46 PM
 > Please respond to
 > ebruchez@orbeon.com
 > To
 > 	"Forms WG (new)" <public-forms@w3.org>
 > cc
 > Subject
 > 	Asynchronous submission is the default?
 > All,
 > I notice in the current XForms 1.1 spec that the default value for
 > xforms:submission/@mode is "asynchronous". I am not sure why this is
 > the case. It seems that this is backward, but I may be mistaken. Did
 > we discuss this and was there a good rationale for using asynchronous?
 > If you are to implement submission in XForms 1.0, say, it seem to me
 > that you would go with the more naive implementation and not bother
 > with asynchronism, as this will may require spawning another thread or
 > comparable mechanism.
 > At least, that's the way we implement it in Orbeon Forms. What do
 > other implementations do?
 > If it is the case that in 1.0 the default is (or is interpreted) as
 > synchronous, then shouldn't the default in XForms 1.1 be the same?
 > -Erik
 > --
 > Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
 > http://www.orbeon.com/

Orbeon Forms - Web Forms for the Enterprise Done the Right Way
Received on Tuesday, 7 August 2007 23:06:39 UTC

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