W3C Forms teleconference April 18, 2007

* Present

Mark Birbeck, x-port.net
Blake Jones, ViewPlus Technologies
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Darrell Dykstra, Adobe
David Landwehr, PicoForms
Erik Bruchez, Orbeon
Jan Kratky, IBM
John Boyer, IBM
Joern Turner, DreamLabs
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Lars Opperman, Sun
Rafael Benito, SATEC
Roger Perez, SATEC
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer, DreamLabs
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C
TV Raman, Google

* Agenda


* Minutes

John Boyer: Should we switch to IRC minutes?
Mark Birbeck: No, there's more in Leigh's minutes.
Steven Pemberton: Is this visibility? There's no reason to.
TV Raman: Just send the message to the public list and we're done.
Charlie Wiecha: We have to deal with minuting member communications.
John Boyer: I have an open question on this.
Charlie Wiecha: Do we have to go into a closed session?
TV Raman: Just do the right thing.

Resolution 2007-04-18.1: We continue using the emailed minutes.

* Face to Face

Steven Pemberton: I will put the info in a public place after I take the cell phone info out.

* XForms 1.0 Basic Implementation Report

Leigh Klotz: I will send the existing implementation report to Kenneth and David and ask them for any updates, then republish it as XForms 1.0 Basic Implementation Report.
John Boyer: Is that OK?
David Landwehr: Yes.

Action 2007-04-18.1: Leigh to send the existing implementation report to Kenneth and David and ask them for any updates, then republish it as XForms 1.0 Basic Implementation Report.

* XForms 1.1 Basic

John Boyer: Any news?
David Landwehr: No.
TV Raman: [leaves]

* Backplane

Charlie Wiecha: I am expecting info sent to the public list from Scott McGlashan.

* XForms Conference

John Boyer: Dave Megginson responded to me and said it sounded like a great idea and he'll be bringing that up with IDEAlliance.

* Grace Period

John Boyer: The 45-day grace period ends on Saturday. Is there anybody who has not yet been able.
Leigh Klotz: I have a meeting on the 25th about rejoining. So it may be a week where I'm out.
John Boyer: Is there a way to extend it?
Steven Pemberton: I don't think so, but Mark is an invited expert and that's on the queue.

Mark Birbeck: They said I was already a member invited expert and couldn't be a public invited expert.
Steven Pemberton: Public invited experts have no W3C access. Member invited experts, such as you are Mark, have member access. So maybe we filled out the wrong form.
Mark Birbeck: They said I was a public invited expert in the HTML but couldn't be invited in the XHTML one because I was an invited expert already.
Steven Pemberton: I'm confused as well; I'll have to research it. I thought it was just the "invited expert" form. Can you forward me the reply you got?
Mark Birbeck: Yes.

John Boyer: I've been told that I should join the working group today.


John Boyer: There were some questions about APP. Are any of those applications under development going to end up in the hands of the public?
Mark Birbeck: We have one that we will put in SVN and using eXist. We could also do one for GData and put it in Googlle's code site.
Leigh Klotz: Our implementation is commercial, and not open source; we don't have APP yet.

* Consider Web Page Update

John Boyer: If we could make wiki pages require login (member only) then that would make it easier.
Leigh Klotz: Is it possible with MoinMoin? I see they have SecurityPolicy in moin 1.1 or later. http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/SecurityPolicy
Steven Pemberton: It might be that way already.
Leigh Klotz: It makes up names for you.
Steven Pemberton: I'll investigate locking.

Action 2007-04-18.2: Steven Pemberton to investigate locking writes on the public wiki and limiting them to members.

* Styling

John Boyer: I wonder if someone like Sebastian would be interested in updating the main group page look-and-feel, and move some stuff to the wiki.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: I'd be happy to do that.

Action 2007-04-18.3: Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer to restyle main group public page look and feel and move stuff to the wiki.

* Member list update

John Boyer: We could update it with the Wiki
Steven Pemberton: There is an automatically-generated page; we ought to link to it. I'm researching a way to include it.
John Boyer: Is the automatically-generated list a member-only link?
Steven Pemberton: Yes, because it includes telephone numbers. But that's not our fault. If W3C would like to provide a public version of that link; John why don't you send mail to Steve Bratt asking for a public version of it?
John Boyer: Do we have to list them?
Steven Pemberton: We don't have to.
John Boyer: People can find the members from the public drafts. Maybe we should just remove it.
Steven Pemberton: And have a member-only link. http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=32219
John Boyer: I'll make the editors-drafts available, including a 1.1 version without the diff marks.

Action 2007-04-18.4: John Boyer to make editors-drafts available.

Action 2007-04-18.5: John Boyer to XForms 1.1 version without diffmarks for processing post-LC comments.

* F2F Registration

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34637/xformsftf200706/

* Bjoern's Issues


John Boyer: We have produced 94 pages of errata that show we are maintaining our specification. Lower down in the document, there are some key issues.

** QName-but-not-NCName


John Boyer: Do we need to send this in as a last-call comment or do we just handle it in the LC bucket?
Steven Pemberton: We can handle it as we like.

Action 2007-04-18.6: John Boyer to handle QName-but-not-NCName http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2003Aug/0002.html

** Appendix F.3


Leigh Klotz: He says "css3-ui, which defines ::repeat-item does relax that restriction" and presumably he means "does not". Isn't this a CSS3 problem?
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: CSS3-UI is in CR
Mark Birbeck: There was some discussion with Tantek about this.

Action 2007-04-18.7: Leigh Klotz and Mark Birbeck to handleAppendix F.3 example http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2003Aug/0003.html

* HTTP Authentication Integration


Leigh Klotz: This looks like a 1.2 requirement.
Mark Birbeck: We should respond though showing we've done work on authentication already.
Leigh Klotz: We had this in XForms 1.0 Requirements ("cgi-based") a long time ago and removed it. I think it is in the IETF documents as well.
Mark Birbeck: If you just set the header we have it; you can ask the username and password.
Leigh Klotz: That's the problem of mixing levels; the browser should know the password but the form author shouldn't be able to get it. We didn't make a way for telling the browser to get it.
Lars Opperman: On the other hand, he is mixing authentication and application state.
Mark Birbeck: I mean that Leigh's point is reasonable; people don't like the popup. You can capture the password and base64 encode it.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: I think we should get Bjoern involved and make this a public discussion.
Mark Birbeck: That's a good idea.
John Boyer: Do we need support for file: URLs that write to domain-specific areas of the drive on behalf of the user?
Mark Birbeck: No.
John Boyer: Then how does this work across forms?
Leigh Klotz: It needs to bind, like upload, to some internal state that you write but can't read.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: I agree. Let's ask him to join the discussion.
John Boyer: Let's add this to the futures wiki then.

Action 2007-04-18.8: Leigh Klotz to add http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-forms-editor/2004Jan/0004.html to the futures wiki and respond to Bjoern Hoehrrmann.

* IRC Minutes


* Meeting Ends