- From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
- Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2013 18:39:04 +0200
- To: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>
- Cc: "public-fedsocweb@w3.org" <public-fedsocweb@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKaEYhKs_F8j0WPuCML9hgcZdBGVgo3GerVVYRPb6ru4C=biBA@mail.gmail.com>
On 1 June 2013 18:34, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote: > Melvin Carvalho wrote: > >> >> >> >> On 1 June 2013 18:13, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net <mailto: >> mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>>> wrote: >> >> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 1 June 2013 16:50, Miles Fidelman >> <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>>>> >> wrote: >> >> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 1 June 2013 14:54, Miles Fidelman >> <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> >> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>>>>> >> wrote: >> >> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On 1 June 2013 03:49, Miles Fidelman >> <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> >> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> >>> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> >> >> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> > >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net<mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> >> <mailto:mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>>>>>> >> wrote: >> >> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >> >> >> We could indeed use SMTP for messaging >> and it has >> advantages, >> but it would be nice to get the web up >> to be >> able to do >> something as simple as sending messages >> between two >> parties >> after more than 20 years. We're not there >> yet, and if >> we can >> even achieve that small step it's a >> victory! >> >> >> Umm, why? >> >> Messaging is messaging. The "web" is HTTP and >> hypertext - >> client-server computing. Two different >> things. >> >> And, by the way, there've been >> server-based email >> systems >> for at >> least 60 years. >> >> >> Try taking two users at random on the FSW on >> different >> networks. Then try sending a message from >> user 1 to >> user 2. >> In many cases there's no standard way to do it. >> >> >> Ummm.... SMTP, SMS? >> >> >> Sure what I mean is to translate that into the web. >> ie that >> you have a sender address and receiver address with a >> message >> body. Major communication systems, SMS, email, telphone, >> postal service all can do this, but strangely the web (ie >> http) cant yet. HTTP POST lets you send to an address >> and a >> message body, but does NOT easily allow you to see who the >> sender is. >> >> >> Might I point out that it really damages your credibility >> if you >> don't actually understand what different protocols do, and the >> whole concept of layering. >> >> >> Thanks for the feedback, I will try to be clearer, and am >> always happy to improve my understanding. Re credibility, I >> wasnt sure I had any! :) >> >> >> HTTP POST does NOT allow you to send to an address - it >> allows you >> to do a transaction between a client and a server (a specific >> machine, or something that masquerades as a single >> machine). Any >> messaging going on is layered on top of (or below) HTTP - >> as in >> posting an email message to a mail server via HTTP, instead of >> SMTP -- when you use webmail, all you're doing is layering >> a GUI >> on top of some messaging infrastructure. >> >> >> I see you point, but my understanding is that HTTP POST allows >> both headers and a payload. The payload could in theory be >> used to send a message. However, to add the address of the >> sending party is problematic, meaning that the receiver doesnt >> always easily know who the message was from. There are a >> number of headers that could be used or this such as: >> >> "From" : however this tends to be email only as it was >> inherited from the email paradigm >> >> "User-Agent" : however this is used to identify the browser, >> rather than, the user. Webmasters may note that spiders such >> as google and baidu actually stuff the http address of the >> spider into this field as part of a csv, though this is not idea. >> >> To my knowledge, there's no top level header in the HTTP spec >> that allows you to identify an HTTP user. We could make one, >> but that would be something new, that requires some text, and >> some consensus. >> >> >> Umm... HTTP authentication and/or SSL client side certificates. >> >> >> Re HTTP Auth, are you saying it supported a userid that can be an http >> profile? If so, I'd love to know more... >> >> Read the friggin spec! (hint: google "http authentication") > Hi Miles, you have not exceeded the level of etiquette I have come to expect on this list. If you are able to answer my question, I'd be happy to hear from you. > > And that still begs the question: if you HAVE a userid, and you post a > mail message in an HTTP envelope, you still need an addressing scheme and a > mail distribution infrastructure. > > > -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra > > >
Received on Saturday, 1 June 2013 16:39:32 UTC