- From: Dave Reynolds <der@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 11:05:18 +0100
- To: "Miles, AJ (Alistair) " <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk>
- Cc: public-esw-thes@w3.org
The broad proposal is fine by me. I just have some reservations about this bit: > (3) Add a new property 'skos:denotesIndividual' to SKOS Core, with domain > skos:Concept and range rdf:Resource, *as a sub-property of > skos:denotesSameAs*. Leonard Will said that thesaurus concepts, and thus presumably skos concepts, are never individuals but can be classes with one member. This would suggest that skos:denotesIndividual is either not required or should not be a sub-property of skos:denotesSameAs. Rather the nearest equivalent would be "denotesTheClassComprisingThisIndividual" - well perhaps a shorter name :-) but that sentiment. Dave Miles, AJ (Alistair) wrote: > Hi, > > Although Danbri had me convinced [1], I found Dave R's argument compelling > [2]. Both points of view seem good to me, or at least appropriate under a > particular set of circumstances. > > So here's an attempt to accommodate both points of view ... what if we do > the following: > > (1) Add a new property 'skos:denotesSameAs' to SKOS Core, which is > *symmetric* and which carries essentially the same semantics as > skos-map:exactMatch. > > (2) Add a new property 'skos:denotesClass' to SKOS Core, with domain > skos:Concept and range rdfs:Class, *as a sub-property of > skos:denotesSameAs*. > > (3) Add a new property 'skos:denotesIndividual' to SKOS Core, with domain > skos:Concept and range rdf:Resource, *as a sub-property of > skos:denotesSameAs*. > > So (1) establishes the underlying ontological commitment that a skos:Concept > sits at the same level of abstraction as an RDFS/OWL Class/Individual. > However, (2) and (3) allow the *directionality* of such a relationship to be > captured, where that is required. > > Er, re-reading that it back to myself, it sounds potentially a little shaky, > but I'll post this anyway, and hopefully it will stimulate more ideas. > > Al. > > [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Sep/0067.html > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Oct/0005.html > > > --- > Alistair Miles > Research Associate > CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory > Building R1 Room 1.60 > Fermi Avenue > Chilton > Didcot > Oxfordshire OX11 0QX > United Kingdom > Email: a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk > Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440 > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org >>[mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Miles, AJ >>(Alistair) >> >>Sent: 14 October 2004 15:25 >>To: 'Leo Sauermann'; public-esw-thes@w3.org >>Subject: RE: [Proposal][SKOS-Core] skos:denotes >> >> >> >>Hi Leo, >> >>To answer the easiest question first, the 'traditional' way >>to use SKOS >>concepts is as the values in a subject-based index of >>documents. There is a >>proposal on the table [1] for a 'skos:subject' property, >>which basically >>behaves in the same way to the 'dc:subject' property, i.e. >>you will be able >>to state: >> >><rdf:RDF /*standard namespaces*/> >> >> <rdf:Description rdf:about="http://foo.com/somedoc.html"> >> <skos:subject rdf:resource="http://bar.com/some#concept"/> >> </rdf:Description> >> >></rdf:RDF> >> >>Of course, there are many other scenarios emerging in which >>SKOS concepts >>can be used (and your use case is expanding the set I had >>imagined so far >>:). For example, a SKOS concept can be depicted by an image, >>or a SKOS >>concept could be a topic of interest or expertise for a person ... >> >>Anyway. Another set of scenarios (including yours I think) >>requires us to >>be able to express a relationship between a SKOS concept and >>an RDFS/OWL >>Class/Individual that 'intends'/'represents'/'denotes' the >>same (or similar) >>thing. This requirement was the basis for the original 'skos:denotes' >>proposal [2] which has been argued for by danbri (see e.g. [3]). >> >>However, others have argued that a relationship of meaning >>between a SKOS >>concept and an RDFS/OWL Class/Individual is essentially the same as a >>mapping relationship between two SKOS concepts (see e.g. >>[4]). Or in other >>words, there is no difference in the level of abstraction >>between a SKOS >>concept and an RDFS/OWL Class/Individual. Hence a >>'skos:denotes' property >>is not appropriate. >> >>So this debate is currently poised :) >> >>I'm just thinking, perhaps a more detailed description of >>your requirements >>here could help us with this problem ... could you expand a >>little on these >>for us? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Alistair. >> >>[1] >>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Oct/0081.html >>[2] >>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Sep/0041.html >>[3] >>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Sep/0067.html >>[4] >>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-esw-thes/2004Oct/0005.html >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org >>[mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Leo Sauermann >>Sent: 14 October 2004 09:46 >>To: public-esw-thes@w3.org >>Subject: Re: [Proposal][SKOS-Core] skos:denotes >> >> >>Danbri: >> >> >>>RDF tries to impose some basic design constraints across >> >>all projects >> >>>that use it, to make things easier for data-merging, extensibility >>>etc. What we're doing with skos:represents (or whatever it gets >>>called) is coming up with a little add-on that helps SKOS-based RDF >>>data work better with non-SKOS RDF data. >> >> >>I could not follow the whole discussion, because I began >>thinking about skos >>a week ago >>http://leobard.twoday.net/stories/360443/ >> >>My Goal is: >> >>I want to build stuctures that are independent of nromal RDF >>instances, that >>means: I want to model things like "Job" >>"Private" "ProjectX" and form these things as SKOS:Concepts >> >>then I have emails, files, photos, websites, etc that I want >>to add to these >>SKOS:concepts >> >>Ideal: >>SKOS concepts >>REAL LIFE Resources >> >>JOB >> - Project X >> - Meeting 23.10.2004 >> - Project Y >>Email "skos;denoites" >>File "skos image" >>Website "skos website" >>Website "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw" >> >> >>now I want >><meeting 23.10.2004> <????> <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw> >> >> >>the problem: >>You forgot to add somehting to skos that allows to acutally USE skos. >>A thesaurus /taxonomy/ whatever is only useful when I can link it to >>external RDF resources, >> >>All predicates in SKOS are having domain/range skos Concepts, >>but SKOS concepts are a closed thing and I want to create >>triples from skos >>to the outer world. >>The "real" resources out there in the world are of type >>email, file, person, >>vcard, vEvent >> >>So, please, >>tell me which property I have to use to hang real resources to a SKOS >>concept. >>is this SKOS:denotes? >> >>is it dc:hasPart ? >> >>cheers >>Leo >> > >
Received on Monday, 18 October 2004 10:05:27 UTC