- From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:52:11 +0100
- To: "Charles McCathieNevile" <charles@w3.org>
- Cc: <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Charles, and all I've been lurking for a few months on this forum and already missed several occasions to jump in. I would like to bring here, thinking aloud and for what it's worth, some thoughts from a parallel world. We've been struggling with similar issues for quite a while now in the Topic Map community, and singularly around the notion of Published Subjects, in the OASIS PubSubj TC [1], and also in Mondeca developments where we often have to deal with Thesaurus legacy. *Charles wrote on Feb 09: > I think that "identify by description" is probably more important than we > realise. After all, the only way that I can tell anyone what my > concept means is by description. Maybe it depends on who is "anyone", human (H) or system (S), and what you mean by "description". The former can make sense of unformal or rather "semi-formal" descriptions, whereas the latter basically needs formal ones. But we need efficient identification mechanism in H2H, S2H, and S2S transactions. In fact most Semantic Web applications will involve those three kinds of transactions together, so the crucial question is to figure out which, if any, identification mechanism would be convenient and non-ambiguous across all of them. The first cut of Topic Maps Published Subjects approach was that S2S needs only name-like identifiers (URIs), whereas H2H needs often description-like identification. The Published Subjects mechanism would address the S2H interaction, by matching in a non-ambiguous way system-usable "subject identifiers" (URIs) to human-usable identification information resources "subject indicators". BTW, yesterday message about WWAAC is more or less about this kind of approach, subject indicators being symbols, graphics, sounds or any other meaningful multimedia content. Now further reflection led some people (including myself) last year in the TM community to question this approach, along the lines of what Charles points at. *Both* systems and humans can use and make sense of name-like identifiers in some contexts, but both will need disambiguating descriptions in other contexts. Both identifiers and descriptions (indicators) can make for subject definition, depending on the context. OTOH, using RDF-OWL can somehow blur the notions of identification, definition and description, leading to some open issues, for example : If I use in a local application, as subject (concept) identifier, the URI of a class or instance in an OWL ontology, or of a descriptor in a SKOS thesaurus, what is the level of ontological commitment involved by that use? Does it mean whatever assertion I make locally about this concept has to be consistent with (all) assertions made in the source ontology or thesaurus "defining" it? "Consistency" here can be read either from an (unformal) human user viewpoint, or from a (formal) system's one. Thorny issue, and IMO the most important one the SW technologies are facing. To come back to the blank node definition of a concept, although it's clear to me why and how it could be done inside an RDF file, I'm still a bit unclear how it could be used by external references (from another thesaurus or ontology): *Charles > We can use identical graphs for two blank concept nodes to assert that > they are the same, for a given purpose. I like the idea, and actually this is something we have been working out in Mondeca to a certain extent. For example in our interface using NLP tools, we can identify two "acquisition" events coming from different news, by first identifying the kind of event, then comparing the identity of role players "buyer" and "bought" in the event association. This is also the path that Topic Maps Reference Model folks (Steve Newcomb and al.) have been following, through the notion of "Subject Identity Discriminating Property" See http://www.isotopicmaps.org/TMRM/TMRM-latest-clean.html#parid3039 Thanks for your attention Bernard [1] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tm-pubsubj/ Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Knowledge Engineering Mondeca - www.mondeca.com bernard.vatant@mondeca.com
Received on Monday, 23 February 2004 08:52:20 UTC