Fwd: EPUB tables in reading solutions

It seems Jiminy's comment did not reach the W3C EPUB CG mailing list, so I transfer it for the sake of the discussion. 

Cordialement, 

Laurent Le Meur
CTO EDRLab

> Début du message réexpédié :
> 
> De: Jiminy Panoz <jiminy@chapalpanoz.com>
> Objet: Rép : EPUB tables in reading solutions
> Date: 29 août 2019 à 21:07:10 UTC+2
> À: Laurent Le Meur <laurent.lemeur@edrlab.org>
> Cc: Gregorio Pellegrino <gregorio.pellegrino@fondazionelia.org>, W3C EPUB3 Community Group <public-epub3@w3.org>
> 
> Further details – as I’ve spent a lot of hours researching that so just for the sake of documenting.
> 
> This is an issue that is shared with the web, and the challenges have been extensively documented, cf. articles from one single website:
> 
> https://css-tricks.com/complete-guide-table-element/#article-header-id-26 <https://css-tricks.com/complete-guide-table-element/#article-header-id-26>
> https://css-tricks.com/accessible-simple-responsive-tables/ <https://css-tricks.com/accessible-simple-responsive-tables/> 
> https://css-tricks.com/responsive-data-tables/ <https://css-tricks.com/responsive-data-tables/> 
> And ebooks add fragmentation on top of those challenges. 
> 
> So this is definitely not an ebook-specific issue by any means, and authoring solutions – albeit not perfect in the sense they have to be adapted – exist. That said, Reading Systems will lose whatever they do here: they will be equally blamed if they leave the table untouched or try to do something in order to improve the UX. In the end, it’s a lose-lose situation for everyone: the user, the author, the RS.
> 
> Best, 
> 
> Jiminy
> 
> Le 28.08.2019 18:55, Laurent Le Meur a écrit :
> 
>> To add a precision (that you'll find in the video), Jiminy Panoz worked two years ago on the notion of "responsive table", carefully authored.
>> Obviously, a basic and large HTML table in a reflowable EPUB, on an app using CSS multi-columns, will not be displayed correctly on a smartphone. 
>> 
>> Cordialement, 
>>  
>> Laurent Le Meur
>> CTO EDRLab
>> 
>>> Le 28 août 2019 à 18:11, Gregorio Pellegrino - Fondazione LIA <gregorio.pellegrino@fondazionelia.org <mailto:gregorio.pellegrino@fondazionelia.org>> a écrit :
>>> Dear CG,
>>> recently at Fondazione LIA we have been working on an accessible EPUB 3 with technical content. We realized that different reading systems have problems displaying complex tables that, although correctly structured in HTML and CSS, are cut in the reading mode (attached some screenshots of example).
>>>  
>>> We have been confronted with Jiminy Panoz and EDRLab not finding a practical solution applicable.
>>>  
>>> In our opinion we should find guidelines for EPUB authors and reading solutions, since more and more content producers want to produce academic, professional, scientific and not only narrative texts in EPUB.
>>>  
>>> What could be the right way forward? Identify tables with particular attributes (ARIA or epub:type) for correct identification by reading solutions? Any other ideas?
>>>  
>>> A good starting point could be the intervention of Toby Green, OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) at EPUB SUMMIT 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YkYBmh8YWM#t=36m25s <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YkYBmh8YWM#t=36m25s>
>>>  
>>> Gregorio
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ---
>>> Gregorio Pellegrino
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Corso di Porta Romana 108, 20122 Milano
>>> Tel. +39 02 89280822
>>> www.fondazionelia.org <http://www.fondazionelia.org/> - www.libriitalianiaccessibili.org <http://www.libriitalianiaccessibili.org/>
>>>  <https://www.facebook.com/Fondazione-LIA-Libri-Italiani-Accessibili-410025432878589>      Segui @fondazionelia
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