- From: Bill Kasdorf <bill.kasdorf@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 11:48:05 -0400
- To: Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com>
- Cc: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, "Reid, Wendy" <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org
Hi, Ken-- If you're doing a demo, I'd really like to attend if possible. Since I'm not in the FXL A11Y TF, could you please be sure to send me the invitation? Thanks! --Bill On 2023-04-17 11:36, Ken Jones wrote: > Matt and Bill - I agree and have heard from other experts that the > context of the image is not best served a 'baked in’ description and > that the context of the image is too important to disregard. > > This is why the SIDD approach is attaching the description to the > specific image within the context of the page, and not to all > instances of an image. It can go further too to add the most fitting > description to montages of multiple images and to smaller areas within > a larger image composition. > > Leonard - Maybe wait for the demo to get a better understanding! > > Thanks > Ken > > Let’s meet up at London Book Fair 2023! [3] > > Ken Jones > Director > Circular Software Limited > circularsoftware.com [4] > > ken@circularsoftware.com > +44 (0)7974 458642 > @CircularKen [5] > linkedin.com/in/kenjones [2] > >> On 17 Apr 2023, at 16:19, Bill Kasdorf <bill.kasdorf@w3.org> wrote: >> To add a bit to what Matt wrote, it's not just that the high school >> textbook would use different terminology than the medical textbook. >> In both cases, there may be specific pedagogical reasons the image >> is being provided; those would influence the descriptions. And one >> other important concern in education: if an image appears in an >> assessment (e.g., a quiz), you have to be careful not to give away >> the answer in the description. Finally, the appropriate level of >> detail varies considerably from context to context. An embedded >> description can be useful as a starting point, but it will rarely be >> exactly what's needed, as-is, in particular usages. >> >> --Bill >> >> On 2023-04-14 17:50, Matt Garrish wrote: >> Wouldn’t the idea be for the author of the image to include that >> information in their asset? >> I’m not saying you’d never want to do that, but in the case of >> sharing image alt text and descriptions, is it helpful to have that >> information embedded in the image when the creator doesn’t know >> how >> the image will be used? (Or doesn’t know how it will be used >> beyond >> their initial need.) >> Consider a picture of a heart, to steal an example George brought up >> years ago when we were considering a database like this for the >> DIAGRAM description framework. The image could easily be used in >> both >> a high school biology textbook and in a medical textbook. Their alt >> texts and descriptions, however, would likely be significantly >> different. Context matters as it influences what information >> you’re >> supposed to get from the image. >> The image doesn’t have to be freely available to run into this >> problem, either. >> Matt >> From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 4:52 PM >> To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com>; 'Ken Jones' >> <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Cc: 'Reid, Wendy' <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>; public-epub-wg@w3.org >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> if the idea is to share alt text and descriptions for (public >> domain) images >> Wouldn’t the idea be for the author of the image to include that >> information in their asset? Sure, images already out there don’t >> have the info – but what direction do you want to push the >> industry? >> Also, if you did want to refer to images – how do you do that? >> URL? Hash? ISCC? Other? >> There’s the bigger problem of context that frustrates sharing. >> The same image can convey significantly different information >> depending on what it’s being used for. >> That’s interesting, Matt…do you have an example? >> Leonard >> From: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@gmail.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 4:37 PM >> To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, 'Ken Jones' >> <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Cc: 'Reid, Wendy' <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: RE: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> The goal should be, instead, to get the data embedded into the >> assets >> I’m not sure this would be more helpful if the idea is to share >> alt >> text and descriptions for (public domain) images. There’s the >> bigger >> problem of context that frustrates sharing. The same image can >> convey >> significantly different information depending on what it’s being >> used for. >> Matt >> From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2023 2:39 PM >> To: Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Cc: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>; public-epub-wg@w3.org >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> Got to it from another device – VPNs don’t like you… >> So it’s a centralized database of image metadata…Seems like the >> wrong approach on a number of levels. >> 1 – Centralization has a lot of legal and practical concerns, >> especially outside the US >> 2 – I don’t see how the data is useful when it is not connected >> in >> any way (that I can tell) to the actual asset. The goal should be, >> instead, to get the data embedded into the assets – using modern >> approaches such as XMP and the new IPTC schemas for accessibility >> > (https://iptc.org/news/iptc-announces-new-properties-in-photo-metadata-to-make-images-more-accessible/) >> 3 – It’s not clear how the data is to actually be used. Are >> people expected to write their own applications, to the AirTable >> API, >> to search/retrieve the data? At that times? Are there any >> restrictions to doing so – geography, source domains, costs, etc?? >> That’s just my initial thoughts after a few minutes reading the >> document. >> Leonard >> From: Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 2:30 PM >> To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Cc: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> It is reachable. >> Others are reaching it. >> Maybe you have a security restriction? >> Please contact me directly if you need help. >> Thanks >> Ken >> Ken Jones >> Director >> Circular Software Limited >> circularsoftware.com [1] [2] >> ken@circularsoftware.com >> +44 (0)7974 458642 >> @CircularKen [3] >> linkedin.com/in/kenjones [2] [4] >> On 14 Apr 2023, at 19:22, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> wrote: >> >> Site not reachable ☹ >> https://circular.software/SIDD >> From: Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 2:20 PM >> To: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> > <s_9D8635F5D892873C326C3F890419B7100B6F9874492714A21129B0167BD6A57A_1677828918862_SIDD_Description_Editor.png> >> Simple Image Descriptions Database [1] >> circular.software [1] >> Here’s what we have so far… >> Thanks >> Ken >> Ken Jones >> Director >> Circular Software Limited >> circularsoftware.com [1] [2] >> ken@circularsoftware.com >> +44 (0)7974 458642 >> @CircularKen [3] >> linkedin.com/in/kenjones [2] [4] >> On 14 Apr 2023, at 18:40, Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> wrote: >> >> We’ll reschedule that portion of the meeting, but continue with >> the rest. In the meantime are there any materials we can review? >> -Wendy >> From: Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 1:05 PM >> To: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> Cc: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> [EXTERNAL] This message comes from an external organization. >> Hi Wendy >> It is London Book Fair next week so I will be there at the >> Accessibility: Charting the Waters [5] seminar on the 18th. >> Can I suggest we reschedule this please? >> Thanks >> Ken >> Let’s meet up at London Book Fair 2023! [6] >> Ken Jones >> Director >> Circular Software Limited >> circularsoftware.com [1] [2] >> ken@circularsoftware.com >> +44 (0)7974 458642 >> @CircularKen [3] >> linkedin.com/in/kenjones [2] [4] >> On 14 Apr 2023, at 17:45, Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> wrote: >> @Ken Jones – are there any resources you can provide? >> From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:37 PM >> To: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com>, public-epub-wg@w3.org >> <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: Re: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - >> 18 April 2023 >> [EXTERNAL] This message comes from an external organization. >> Is there any pre-read on this “SIDD” thing? >> Leonard >> From: Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com> >> Date: Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:30 PM >> To: public-epub-wg@w3.org <public-epub-wg@w3.org> >> Subject: [FXLA11Y] Fixed Layout Accessibility Taskforce Agenda - 18 >> April 2023 >> EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments. >> Hi all, >> The FXL Accessibility Taskforce will be meeting Tuesday, April 18th >> at 9AM Boston time, or 13 UTC. > > https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=FXL+Accessibility+Meeting+&iso=20230418T09&p1=250&ah=1 > >> [7] >> Agenda: >> * Reading order, Page Regions, introducing ‘SIDD’ (the Simple >> Image Descriptions Database) – Ken Jones >> * Accessible FXL Research Project from LIA [1] >> * What to do with the TF Work >> [1] > > https://www.fondazionelia.org/en/research-and-development/accessible-fixed-layout-epubs-a-new-research-project-by-fondazione-lia/ > >> [8] >> Meeting information can be found here: > > https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8e109b5f-af50-43e9-ae99-9afff77b58bb/20230418T090000 > >> [9] >> See you all Tuesday, >> Wendy > Links: > ------ > [1] https://circular.software/SIDD > [2] https://www.circularsoftware.com/ > [3] https://twitter.com/CircularKen > [4] http://linkedin.com/in/kenjones > [5] > https://www.publishers.org.uk/events/accessibility-charting-the-waters-at-london-book-fair/ > [6] https://calendly.com/circularken/lbf > [7] > https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=FXL+Accessibility+Meeting+&iso=20230418T09&p1=250&ah=1 > [8] > https://www.fondazionelia.org/en/research-and-development/accessible-fixed-layout-epubs-a-new-research-project-by-fondazione-lia/ > [9] > https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/8e109b5f-af50-43e9-ae99-9afff77b58bb/20230418T090000 > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://circularsoftware.com/ > [2] http://linkedin.com/in/kenjones > [3] https://calendly.com/circularken/lbf > [4] https://www.circularsoftware.com/ > [5] https://twitter.com/CircularKen
Received on Monday, 17 April 2023 15:48:10 UTC