- From: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:57:43 +0000
- To: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, "Shinya Takami (高見真也)" <takami-s@kadokawa.jp>
- CC: Makoto Murata <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>, W3C EPUB 3 Working Group <public-epub-wg@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <DM8PR02MB81818CDABE79AE949A2EF09BCD1D9@DM8PR02MB8181.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
One clarification – from someone who has gone through the PAS process (and also chairs an ISO TC). The part about “just slapping on a cover page” is correct BUT then the document still goes through one round of voting for approval. During that round, any member of the committee may submit comments (either technical or editorial), which the committee with then need to discuss and potentially apply. So it’s not always the case that the document is “unchanged”. And if there are changes, depending on the type of changes, the document may have to go back for another round of ballots (or it could just go to publication). With respect to “Living Standards” vs ISO – the way to think about it is that you only send to ISO on major milestones (aka a “snapshot in time”). For example, when you make a change that isn’t backwards compatible and would require a version update to EPUB 3.4, THEN you send it to PAS for standardization. Otherwise, the industry works from the “Living Standard” (which is a term that I *HATE* - instead preferring to think of them as “specifications” vs. what comes from ISO as the “standard”). Leonard From: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> Date: Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 4:02 AM To: "Shinya Takami (高見真也)" <takami-s@kadokawa.jp> Cc: Makoto Murata <eb2mmrt@gmail.com>, W3C EPUB 3 Working Group <public-epub-wg@w3.org> Subject: Re: PAS submission to ISO/IEC JTC1 (was Re: [AGENDA] EPUB 3 Working Group (EPUB3WG) Teleconference - 8 December 2022) I can answer that, Shinya… The submission must be made officially by the W3C. I am not familiar with the administrative details (but I can find out), but there is a process whereby W3C, as a copyright holder and "owner" of the Recommendation, can submit it to ISO. ISO would then accept and publish the recommendation as an official ISO standard. This is the "PAS submission procedure", which is based on a general agreement between ISO JTC1 and W3C essentially saying that ISO accepts the outcome of a W3C WG work as a real standard. The great advantage (as opposed to earlier EPUB related ISO documents in the past) is that the document does not have to change at all, ie, no transformation into ISO language/tools/format/whatever, and its review process is also simplified. The copyright and the patent policy commitments are also unchanged. In particular, the documents will also remain public. As Makoto says, ISO JTC1 just adds its own cover page. The decision that the WG will have to take is whether the WG requests W3C to do this submission, once the three Recommendations, ie, EPUB Core, EPUB RS, and EPUB A11Y, are published. However, while I agree with Makoto that it is good to avoid confusion on the market place, i.e., that the PAS procedure would make a lot of sense at this point, there is an aspect that we have to discuss. ISO submission put aside, we will have to decide whether we want to turn the EPUB 3.3 publication into a "living standard" or not. "Living standard" means the following. Once this WG runs out of its charter, we set up a low-key "maintenance WG", which handles errata and, possibly, looks at the outstanding issues (see [1] for those at the moment). The WG will have the possibility to make 'fast-track' updates of the EPUB 3.3 by, for example, handling errata but, more importantly, solving another issue listed in [1] and adding a new normative feature (remember the discussion we had on Webtoons in [2]). Fast track means that we do not have to go through a WG draft, it ends up "editing" an existing standard quickly. Bottom line: we may end up issuing a new version of EPUB 3.3 once a year, or once every 18 months if necessary. Coming back to the original issue: Makoto, can you tell us what that would mean in terms of ISO? Can ISO accept such quick turnover on new versions? How long does it take to submit a new version of EPUB 3.3 via the PAS procedure? The danger is that, with a Living EPUB 3.3 standard, we would get out of sync with ISO very quickly, which would beat the purpose of a PAS submission. Cheers Ivan [1] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AStatus-Deferred <https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:Status-Deferred> [2] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2412 <https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2412> On 8 Dec 2022, at 03:58, Shinya Takami <takami-s@kadokawa.jp <mailto:takami-s@kadokawa.jp>> wrote: Murata-san, Could you explain what and who should do for that at the call? Thanks Shinya 2022年12月8日(木) 9:55 MURATA <eb2mmrt@gmail.com <mailto:eb2mmrt@gmail.com>>: All, > What do we do after EPUB 3.3? I propose to submit EPUB 3.3, EPUB RS 3.3, and EPUB A11Y 1.1 to ISO/IEC JTC1 using the PAS submission procedure. In my understanding, the PAS agreement between W3C and JTC1 implies that JTC1 will attach cover pages and will not touch anything. This is how WCAG 2.0 was published as ISO/IEC 40500:2012. Replacing old versions in JTC1 by new versions is good for avoiding unnecessary confusion. In particular, I can start to revise the JIS version of EPUB A11Y. Regards, Makoto 2022年12月7日(水) 23:20 Reid, Wendy <wendy.reid@rakuten.com <mailto:wendy.reid@rakuten.com>>: Thursday 8 December 2022 Time: 7:00 PM Boston (60min) Local date/time link: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EPUB3WG+Meeting&iso=20221208T19&p1=43&ah=1 <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=EPUB3WG+Meeting&iso=20221208T19&p1=43&ah=1> Connection details at end of note Topics: 1 – Testing Updates [1] 2 – MIME Sniffing [2] 3 – What do we do after EPUB 3.3? Links [1] https://w3c.github.io/epub-tests/results <https://w3c.github.io/epub-tests/results> [2] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2491 <https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/2491> ================= = Connection details = ================= Text Chat: https://irc.w3.org/?channels=epub <https://irc.w3.org/?channels=epub> IRC://irc.w3.org:6665/#epub <http://irc.w3.org:6665/#epub> Meeting link for Zoom in archive: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-epub-wg/2020Aug/0000.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-epub-wg/2020Aug/0000.html> ================= The EPUB3WG relies on IRC in our weekly call to encourage meeting participation, document our discussions, vote on resolutions and manage the speaker queue, etc. For more information about IRC in w3.org <http://w3.org/>, please review https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC <https://www.w3.org/wiki/IRC> -- -- 慶應義塾大学政策・メディア研究科特任教授 村田 真 -- XxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxX Shinya Takami, Ph.D. <takami-s@kadokawa.jp <mailto:takami-s@kadokawa.jp>> Chief Architect & Evangelist, KADOKAWA CORPORATION - + - - + - - + - - + - - + - - + - - + - - + - Senior Researcher, Keio Research Institute at SFC https://www.kri.sfc.keio.ac.jp/en/lab/aplab/ <https://www.kri.sfc.keio.ac.jp/en/lab/aplab/> Co-Chair, EPUB 3 Working Group | Publishing@W3C https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/ <https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/epub-wg/> XxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXxX ---- Ivan Herman, W3C Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ <http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
Received on Thursday, 8 December 2022 11:58:00 UTC