Re: Fixed layout titles and real problems today

Hi George,

Yes, in Children's FL/MO books word-at-a-time highlighting is generally
supported.  And, yes, the correct reading order can be sussed out from the
SMIL.

But, as mentioned at the top, in FL, with or without MO, having the text
placed (likely absolutely positioned) in the markup in the correct reading
order is key... and, generally, easy.

Best,
   Garth


On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:35 PM <kerscher@montana.com> wrote:

> Hello again,
>
>
>
> If the fixed layout titles also have media overlays, as in children’s
> picture books, could the   correct reading order of the text be extracted
> and made available separately? Do children’s picture books normally
> highlight the text as it is spoken?
>
>
>
> Best
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Jones <ken@circularsoftware.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 18, 2021 4:29 AM
> *To:* kerscher@montana.com
> *Cc:* public-epub-wg@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Fixed layout titles and real problems today
>
>
>
> Hi George and WG folks
>
>
>
> As the fixed layout EPUB standard allows the presentation of multiple text
> elements on a single page, indicating the correct reading order becomes
> vital to the understanding of that page for those who are relying on text
> to speech.
>
>
>
> I put this concern as the top priority in my notes on Accessibility in
> Fixed Layout EPUB that I posted here
> <https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/Accessibility-in-Fixed-Layout-EPUB--BHJp6pGoFBPzWC4LsEFKb98gAg-3il8mlIqLpUfHHhcZEmgy>
> .
>
>
>
> The reason the reading order is often incorrect in fixed layout is that,
> in my experience, the ordering or elements in the EPUB code is rarely
> considered by illustrated publishers. Even when it is, it can’t be easily
> shown, predicted or altered by content creators.
>
>
> My company's software CircularFLO
> <https://www.circularsoftware.com/apps/circularflo> has accessibility
> tools that can be used by the InDesign user to visually indicate and
> alter the reading order of a publication whilst still in InDesign. This
> information is then used to reorder the text in the resulting XHTML on
> export with CircularFLO. For complex layouts, careful consideration to the
> z-order needs to be given if we don't want to risk altering the appearance
> of the layout.
>
>
>
> We hope to add more to this work so that image descriptions, even for
> large composite background images, can also be added into the reading order
> in the most suitable location.
>
>
>
> What you are looking for here though seems to be a tool to alter the
> reading order of existing fixed layout EPUBs when we have no access to the
> source creation files.
>
>
>
> I can't see how this can be totally automated, how can the correct reading
> order be known? The position of text on the page both vertically and
> horizontally, the stacking order, the styling, even the tag hierarchy can
> give us clues but can not give us definitive answers.
>
>
>
> If I were asked to solve this problem and to provide a tool to fix
> existing fixed layout EPUBs, my approach would be similar to how I have
> tackled it in InDesign with CircularFLO. I would suggest the creation of a
> web app which opened any fixed layout EPUB and markers added which visually
> overlaid the reading order on top of each page element.
>
>
>
> The user would then be walked through the publication, page by page, so
> the order could be quickly approved, or if a change was needed the order
> could be indicated by the user clicking or dragging these visual markers to
> correct order. Any changes to the order would then be made to the
> underlying EPUB content in the corresponding XHTML.
>
>
>
> If we made this web app simple to use, perhaps this could be done at scale
> in an affordable way. Either by publishers themselves or maybe by
> volunteers, or by professionals that were either crowd sourced or working
> offshore.
>
>
>
> I’m keen to help on this and the whole topic of fixed layout accessibility
> where I can.
>
>
> Thanks
> Ken
>
>
> *Ken Jones*Director
> Circular Software Limited
> circularsoftware.com
>
> ken@circularsoftware.com
> +44 (0)7974 458642 <+44%207974%20458642>
> @CircularKen <https://twitter.com/CircularKen>
> linkedin.com/in/kenjones
>
>
>
> On 17 Mar 2021, at 20:24, <kerscher@montana.com> <kerscher@montana.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello WG folks,
>
>
>
> I know we are working on the best ways to create a fixed layout
> specification that will be accessible. However, there are many that are on
> the market today. Are there techniques to transform these into something
> that is accessible? I mean what do we do when a child with a disability
> needs to be reading the same picture book as everybody else? If the child
> is learning with a refreshable braille display, they need to get at the
> text in the correct reading order.
>
>
>
> If there is something you can think of that could be automated for a large
> set of titles, that would be good to know.
>
>
>
> Best
>
> George
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <image001.png>
>
>
>
> George Kerscher Ph.D.
>
> -In our Information Age, access to information is a fundamental human
> right.
>
> Chief Innovations Officer, DAISY Consortium
>
> http://www.daisy.org
>
> Senior Advisor, Global Literacy, Benetech
>
> http://www.benetech.org
>
> President, International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF)
>
> http://www.idpf.org
>
> Member of the National Museum and Library Services  Board (IMLS)
>
> http://www.imls.gov
>
> Chair Steering Council Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI), at W3C
>
> http://www.w3.org/WAI
>
> Phone: +1 406/549-4687 <(406)%20549-4687>
>
> Cell:+1 406/544-2466 <(406)%20544-2466>
>
> Email: kerscher@montana.com
>
>
>