Re: EOCred: cost of a credential

I'm entirely for putting this off until we have a greater understanding, I
was just excited to see a benefit that could help describe such core
objects as Offer, JobPosting, and Demand.

It was primarily in response to your comment about eligableCustomerType, in
that there may be alternatives to expanding eligableCustomerType in Offer,
namely bringing 'qualifications' over from JobPosting.

On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 3:53 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote:

> Fritz, I think that eligibility requirements (I have learnt that
> qualification is a tricky word) are not the same as credentials that show
> you meet those requirements.
>
> I am not keen on tackling *all* the use cases relating to any type of
> Credential, we have plenty
> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases> of our own
> :)  I do think we will circle back to where EOCred sits in the schema.org
> type hierarchy when we have a better idea of what properties it has, and
> how many of those properties are specifically educational or occupational.
>
> I honestly don't know whether what you suggest is a good idea (that's
> partly why I don't want to get into Credentials in general) but I do know
> that I would like to solve the requirement of providing information about
> the cost of EOCreds without spending time thinking about what is required
> to insure cars.
>
> One of the nice things about schema.org's relaxed attitude to expected
> range is that Offer will work as it is.
> Phil
>
>
> On 26/01/18 11:23, Fritz Ray wrote:
>
> I feel like we could extend Offer in a way that perhaps takes care of the
> restrictiveness of eligableCustomerType.
>
> If we make a hollow class inbetween CreativeWork and EOC, say CreativeWork
> > Credential > EOC then we could propose a property in Offer: '
> qualifications <http://schema.org/qualifications>' adding a range of
> 'Credential'
>
> The use case I can think of immediately is: One cannot get a bank account
> without a form of identification (a type of Credential), one cannot buy
> insurance without a Driver's License. One cannot work in classified areas
> without a Security Clearance (which is not an EOC)
>
> Regional credentials or citizenship could also be required to get
> different types of offers (a discount if one's a registered veteran, a
> member of a professional society, or some such) that, as Richard mentioned,
> could have different pricing.
>
> Requires could also be used in other areas.
>
> Demand could also have 'requires', for situation where one needs a
> commercially insured driver, or an individual with a certain degree to
> satisfy their demand.
> JobPosting could add Credential to the range of 'qualifications'
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 3:04 AM, Richard Wallis <
> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> I would just add, for those not familiar with Offer
>> <http://schema.org/Offer> a *Thing* [an EducationalOccupationalCredential
>> in this case] can be the subject of multiple *offers*.  Also Offer has
>> an offeredBy <http://schema.org/offeredBy> property linking to the
>> offering organisation or person.
>>
>> These enable use cases of an organisation offering the same
>> *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial* at differing costs to different
>> subjects with differing eligibility and; 3rd parties listing disparate
>> organisations offering the same *EducationalOccupationalCredent**ial*.
>>
>> ~Richard
>>
>> Richard Wallis
>> Founder, Data Liberate
>> http://dataliberate.com
>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
>> Twitter: @rjw
>>
>> On 26 January 2018 at 10:40, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to try and keep some momentum by doing some of the quick and easy
>>> use cases while we discuss the more difficult ones. I think this is one:
>>>
>>> Cost
>>> Having found a credential it should be possible to identify the cost of
>>> acquiring the credential.
>>>
>>> Requires: ability to show relevant cost for educational / occupational
>>> credential objects
>>> Note: this implies that a credential is offered
>>>
>>> This is the cost of the credential itself, not the cost of courses,
>>> training or other things required in order to earn the credential (these
>>> costs can be shown when describing those other things).
>>>
>>> schema.org has means for specifying the cost of things with the offers
>>> <http://schema.org/offers> property which we could use. If
>>> EducationalOccupationalCredential is a CreativeWork, then we already
>>> have the offers property (if it is not, we may need change the domain of
>>> the existing offers property)
>>>
>>> A simple example
>>>
>>> {
>>>   "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>>>   "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
>>>   "url" : "https://www.alt.ac.uk/certified-membership"
>>> <https://www.alt.ac.uk/certified-membership>,
>>>   "name": "CMALT",
>>>   "description": "Certified Membership of the Association for Learning
>>> Technology",
>>>   "offers": {
>>>     "@type": "Offer",
>>>     "name": "Registration fee (UK)",
>>>     "price": "150",
>>>     "priceCurrency": "GBP"
>>>   }
>>> }
>>>
>>> Offers <http://schema.org/Offer> can get quite complex, allowing
>>> different currencies, different offers for different regions, add on offers
>>> etc.  I think it would cover our needs adequately; the only potential
>>> problem I can see is that eligibleCustomerType as defined is too
>>> restrictive to provide information like "special price for military
>>> veterans". My approach to this would be to 1) raise this as an issue with
>>> schema.org. 2) provide text values anyway (schema.org allows this)
>>>
>>> Any objections? Have I missed anything?
>>>
>>> Phil
>>> --
>>>
>>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
>>> information systems for education.
>>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
>>> number SC569282.
>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
>>> England number OC399090
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
> information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
> number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
> England number OC399090
>