- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 16:43:25 +0000
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <3a35e55c-2224-1a61-1a37-0193f216301f@pjjk.co.uk>
Comments in line On 16/02/18 15:32, Fritz Ray wrote: > Here goes! > > I think it is useful. > I got no better name than educationalLevel. > > I can't think of a good second sentence. Here's a candidate for the > first one: > > A string, term or URL indicating the position(?) of the credential in > a set of levels, ranking or scale provided by an educational framework. > Thanks Fritz. Tricky thing is that definition doesn't really say what the "set levels, ranking or scale" relate to. But it's a start. Perhaps it's obvious. That certainly wouldn't be the vaguest definition in schema.org :) > ---- > > Just checking my understanding against SCQF, it appears to be: > > * A ranked set of levels, whereon each is subsumed by the higher. > * Formal, not informal, in that it doesn't leave its interpretation > to the reader. > * General, not specific, in that while it outlines requirements, it > does not specify objects that meet those requirements. > Yep. > I would identify these as 'label' or 'tag' levels where they assist in > describing a credential (and ultimately the capabilities of the > credential awardee) by outlining requirements and showing equivalence > to other levels (such as Higher Ed Degree Levels). Yes, I think so. In practice, it kind of works the other way round, Higher Ed degree levels such as Ordinary Degree, Honours Degree, Masters, Doctorate are defined by being at a certain SCQF levels. This is related to a thing called the Bologna process which is part of making sure that a university degree from Scotland can be considered equivalent to a university degree from Germany. > I would say that they are factors in 'accomplishment', but as they are > levels outside of the definition of any particular credential, they do > not fit 'level of accomplishment' by themselves. > not sure about this... they may levels of accomplishment they just don't say what the accomplishment is in? > In subtle contrast, if a College granted certificates at these > specific levels, such as "SCQF Level 5 Financial Management", then > each credential corresponding to the various levels offered *would* be > 'levels of accomplishment' because each certificate specifies the > objects that meet those requirements. This credential would also have > educationalLevel include http://scqf.org.uk/level/5. > > Note that the subtle contrast remains if the college granted just > "Level 5 Financial Management" -- in that case the link to the SCQF > framework would drop off, but the college would continue to offer > 'levels of accomplishment' in that area. ...and by here I think something is definitely wrong. To pick a close match to your example, the Accounting NC Course at Edinburgh College <http://www.edinburghcollege.ac.uk/courses/Business,-Finance-and-Legal-Services/Accounting%20NC/TH1NCACF18> is stated by them to be at SCQF Level 5, and the Credential awarded to those who are successful is the SQA National <https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/58062.3806.html> Level 5 Qualification for Accouting > > Levels of performance don't come into play it appears for SCQF or EQF. Correct. That's a separate issue. Phil > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 4:29 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk > <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote: > > > On 16/02/18 01:15, Nate Otto wrote: >> Unless we can find consensus on what sense of the word "level" >> we're trying to model, maybe we should just leave it out. There >> are many cans of springs that could be opened. >> >> Phil, your draft phrase "Indicates the required level of >> educational attainment, accomplishment, knowledge or experience" >> doesn't clearly match any of the senses of level we've been >> talking about here. You mentioned you had been thinking about the >> second sense I suggested (the credential recognizes achievement >> of a particular level) and then this draft text more closely >> represents the first (the credential requires a certain level of >> experience or skill in order to participate in or be likely to >> pass assessment). >> > My wording isn't great. > > I think there is some consensus that there are three distinct > aspects as Fritz outlined: level of accomplishment, extent (amount > of credit), ways of indicating how well an individual did. > > Sorry, I found it hard to distinguish the two senses you mentioned > earlier: they seem like two different ways of using the same level > of accomplishment, one to indicate what a course of study aims > for, one to indicate what is expected before a credential is > awarded. So perhaps I didn't understand your original question. > While the focus of this group is on credentials, with a wider view > I think that a property representing level could have Course, > CreativeWorks (learning materials) and > EducationalOccupationalCredential in its domain. Perhaps that > didn't help clarity either. > > Talking about Associate Degree / Bachellors degrees etc as > equating to levels is only half the story. It does make sense > colloquially to talk about something as "degree level" or "PhD > Level", but the actual credential category name comprises an > indication of both this level and the scope or extent or breadth > of coverage (roughly, the length of the course needed to cover the > material / concepts / skills that need to be demonstrated). > > To formallize this, in Europe we have a well established, widely > used (required by regulatory authorities) European Qualifications > Framework defining levels, [EQF > <https://ec.europa.eu/ploteus/content/descriptors-page>, wikipedia > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Qualifications_Framework>] > and European Credit Transfer System [ECTS > <https://ec.europa.eu/education/resources/european-credit-transfer-accumulation-system_en>, > wikipedia > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Credit_Transfer_and_Accumulation_System>] > defining the extent of coverage. These are implemented as national > frameworks that map to the EQF and ECTS, and I am most familiar > with the Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework, SCQF > <http://scqf.org.uk/>. So a Scottish Bachellors degree programme > is 480 SCQF credits reaching SCQF level 10 (which maps to 240 ECTS > credits reaching EQF level 6), the credential awarded is thus at > EQF level 6. I cannot overemphasise how pervasive these concepts > of level and credit are in formal education and training in > Scotland, and the rest of Europe. > > In the US, I see the Connecting Credentials Framework > <http://connectingcredentials.org/framework-detail/> (CCF) is > defined in terms of levels which look very similar to the EQF levels. > > The problem I have, is that I don't see in CCF or EQF any short > definition of what they mean by 'level' that would be useful for a > schema.org <http://schema.org> property name and description. > > I would really welcome a focus on level as exemplified in EQF, > SCQF, CCF: > - do we have consensus that it is a useful distinct property? > - is there a better name than educationalLevel? > - how do we define it in one or two sentences? > > Phil > > -- > > Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil > PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance > learning; information systems for education. > CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education > technology. > > PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited > company, number SC569282. > CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered > in England number OC399090 > > -- Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning; information systems for education. CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology. PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, number SC569282. CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in England number OC399090
Received on Friday, 16 February 2018 16:43:52 UTC