- From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:34:34 +0000
- To: Serafín Olcoz <olcoz@ej-gv.es>
- CC: public-egov-ig@w3.org
Hi Serafín,
Apologies for my errors. I have copied and pasted your corrections into
the minutes as you can now see at
http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-egov-minutes.html
Hope this all OK now.
Cheers
Phil.
On 26/11/2012 13:55, Serafín Olcoz wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> I do not know how it works, but I would like to ask for some relevant
> changes added in line (the red ones) to the minutes (if possible, of course)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Serafin Olcoz
>
>
> El 26/11/12 11:38, "Phil Archer" <phila@w3.org> escribió:
>
>> The minutes of today's meeting featuring presentations from Rufus
>> Pollock and Serafin Olcoz are at
>> http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-egov-minutes.html and repeated below as text.
>>
>>
>> W3C eGov 26 November 2012 meeting
>>
>> [2]Agenda
>>
>> [2]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Nov/0053.html
>>
>> See also: [3]IRC log
>>
>> [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-egov-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>> Present
>> agipap, PhilA2, [IPcaller], +8532871aaaa, Serafin,
>> martinAlvarez, Tomasz, +8532871aabb, +8532871aacc,
>> +44.786.783.aadd, Elsa, Rufus
>>
>> Chair
>> Tomasz Janowski
>>
>> Scribe
>> Florian Henning, PhilA
>>
>> Contents
>>
>> * [4]Topics
>> 1. [5]Open data kickoff
>> 2. [6]presentation by open knowledge foundation (rufus
>> pollock)
>> 3. [7]Serafin Olcoz on Openness and Reuse of Public
>> Sector Information using Open Data Publishing, Decree
>> * [8]Summary of Action Items
>> __________________________________________________________
>>
>> <scribe> Scribe: Florian Henning
>>
>> <scribe> ScribeNick: fhenning
>>
>> <PhilA2> Meeting:eGov Interest Group
>>
>> <PhilA2> agenda:
>> [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Nov/0
>> 053.html
>>
>> [9]
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2012Nov/0053.html
>>
>> <PhilA2> chair: Tomasz
>>
>> <DeirdreLee> I'm one of P5, P6 or P7..
>>
>> <rgrp> hi there
>>
>> <rgrp> this is rufus pollock ...
>>
>> <rgrp> i am also on the phone
>>
>> Open data kickoff
>>
>> Tomasz: welcomes participants and ask for round of
>> introductions
>>
>> <Olcoz> Hi Martin
>>
>> [audio problems from Tomasz line. reconnecting]
>>
>> [audio problems resolved]
>>
>> yes i'm scribing
>>
>> <PhilA2> scribe: fhenning
>>
>> <PhilA2> scribeNick: fhenning
>>
>> DeirdreLee: from from ireland
>>
>> from unu-iist/merit
>>
>> Gwyn_Sutherlin: phd candidate in peace studies
>>
>> mariateresa: from england
>>
>> martinAlvarez: from spain
>>
>> <PhilA2> agipap: is Agis Panatoniou from NTUA Greece
>>
>> Agis: from greece
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: Is Rufus Pollock
>>
>> elsa: from unu-iist, macau
>>
>> <billroberts> Hi All - from UK, particular interest in Linked
>> Data for public sector
>>
>> Tomasz: few words about open data topic
>>
>> <Gwyn_Sutherlin> I joined the call as IP caller, not sure how
>> to add
>>
>> Tomasz: OD = data that is free to use/reuse by anyone
>> ... OD has not yet beenproperly exploited, but can have huge
>> potential
>> ... impossible to predict how it can produce value
>>
>> <elsa> I am trying to connect on the phone and type 3468# and I
>> get the message that the code is incorrect
>>
>> Tomasz: according to April's OD workshop by IDRC/Berkman
>> center, there is a range of potential benefis from OD
>> ... but we don't understand many issues about OD
>> ... same workshop also identified strateic tensions relating to
>> adoption of OD
>> ... eg. contextual differences between developed and developing
>> countries
>> ... also strat. tension concerning outcomes vs. impact
>> ... another point is a strat. tnesion between qualitative and
>> quanitative methods to explore impact of OD
>> ... it will be dificult to quantify many impacts. this impacts
>> how analysis is framed
>> ... any questions at this point?
>>
>> no questions
>>
>> Tomasz: introduces speakers
>> ... daniel bennet is not on the call. tomasz will fill in
>>
>> <rgrp>
>> [10]http://notebook.okfn.org/2012/11/26/open-data-protocols-pre
>> sentation-to-w3c-egov-interest-group/
>>
>> [10]
>> http://notebook.okfn.org/2012/11/26/open-data-protocols-presentation-to-w3c-eg
>> ov-interest-group/
>>
>> presentation by open knowledge foundation (rufus pollock)
>>
>> <rgrp>
>> [11]http://notebook.okfn.org/2012/11/26/open-data-protocols-pre
>> sentation-to-w3c-egov-interest-group/
>>
>> [11]
>> http://notebook.okfn.org/2012/11/26/open-data-protocols-presentation-to-w3c-eg
>> ov-interest-group/
>>
>> <rgrp> [12]http://bit.ly/dataprotocols-egov-nov-2012
>>
>> [12] http://bit.ly/dataprotocols-egov-nov-2012
>>
>> <PhilA2> Slides are now linked from the wiki
>>
>> <rgrp> the notebook post would probably be the optimum thing to
>> link to
>>
>> <rgrp> [13]http://ckan.org/
>>
>> [13] http://ckan.org/
>>
>> [audio line from rufus has suboptimal sound quality, scribing
>> will not be complete, pls refer to slides on wiki for more
>> complete notes]
>>
>> <rgrp> [14]http://dataprocotols.org/
>>
>> [14] http://dataprocotols.org/
>>
>> phil could you aid with scribing for this presentation if you
>> receive better audio?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> <DeirdreLee> [15]http://www.dataprotocols.org/
>>
>> [15] http://www.dataprotocols.org/
>>
>> <PhilA2> Slide 3 - we want a rich data ecosystm. Easy to share
>> data, easy to use
>>
>> <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
>>
>> <rgrp>
>> [16]http://blog.okfn.org/2011/03/31/building-the-open-data-ecos
>> ystem/
>>
>> [16] http://blog.okfn.org/2011/03/31/building-the-open-data-ecosystem/
>>
>> rgrp: We're missing quite a lot of this middle piece. We have
>> the top anad bottom but not the intermediatary group
>> ... so data tends to be quite low quality
>> ... To give you an example. If you;re trying to build something
>> on a hack day, you spend half your data cleaning up data
>> ... assuming you can find it, it's not in the right form, got
>> messy terms etc.
>> ... You need country codes that work in a mashup and so on.
>> ... people spend time over and over again cleaning up the same
>> daya
>> ... Rufus shows his age and starts talking about punch cards
>> ... A classic thing you might want to do is garb data and put
>> in into postgre
>> ... this is not a one liner. There's a lot to do. What we want
>> is a one line to get data from a catalogue and put it into a
>> local tool
>>
>> <rgrp> [17]http://blog.okfn.org/2010/02/23/introducing-datapkg/
>>
>> [17] http://blog.okfn.org/2010/02/23/introducing-datapkg/
>>
>> <Tomasz> q
>>
>> <Tomasz> phil, how to check the question queue? sorry
>>
>> rgrp: A lot of software integration doesn't happen
>> automatically. A lot of it is based on APIs
>>
>> <Tomasz> thank you
>>
>> rgrp: We need to look at (digital) packaging
>> ... We need that kind of software packaging ecosystem - how do
>> we do that with data?
>> ... WE want to be better at automating getting data on nad off
>> our machines
>> ... W3C does good work on schemas but it's not lightweight
>> ... We've been doing a thing called dataprotocols.org where
>> people can hangout and work on specs
>> ... Slide 5
>> ... is a screen grab of what's going on
>> ... these are concrete services that we have built or want to
>> build
>> ... it's not a formal standardisation process
>> ... but this is a space for more informal, RFC-style
>> development
>> ... more on slide 6
>> ... Going on to talk about data packages
>> ... been working on it for about 5 years
>> ... orginally part of CKAN
>> ... we have software packages, can we have data packages?
>> ... Focus on tabular data. The catalogues I've seen, tabular +
>> geo is almost all of what gets published
>> ... In terms of original raw data, most of it is tabular
>> ... It has a lot of attractive properties that I could go on
>> about
>> ... A lot of the data is file based, not API-based
>> ... flat files like CSV are very attractive. It may not be
>> pretty but it is effective - like a Kalashnikov rifle
>> ... everything supports it
>> ... it streams well, you can have massive files
>> ... a simple schema for describing CSV would be useful
>> ... we need version info for CSVs. Open is important, but if
>> eberyone is collaborating, how to we do version management for
>> CSV
>> ... Git or Mercurial are potentially good ones for CSAV as they
>> are line-orientated
>> ... the actual spec is available
>> ... what it boils down to is a bunch of data files, you have
>> JSON and you can have other stuff
>> ... there's a .json file that includes the metadata
>> ... and then you have a filespec to list your files
>> ... Slide 12 is an example
>>
>> <rgrp>
>> [18]https://github.com/datasets/cofog/blob/master/datapackage.j
>> son
>>
>> [18] https://github.com/datasets/cofog/blob/master/datapackage.json
>>
>> rgrp: You can add more to this. But basically it's a table
>> schema
>>
>> <rgrp>
>> [19]http://www.dataprotocols.org/en/latest/json-table-schema.ht
>> ml
>>
>> [19] http://www.dataprotocols.org/en/latest/json-table-schema.html
>>
>> The whole thing follows...
>>
>> {
>>
>> "metadata": {
>>
>> "name": "cofog",
>>
>> "title": "Classification of the Functions of Government",
>>
>> "homepage":
>> "[20]http://unstats.un.org/unsd/class/family/family2.asp?Cl=4",
>>
>> [20] http://unstats.un.org/unsd/class/family/family2.asp?Cl=4
>>
>> "version": "1999",
>>
>> "source": "United Nations",
>>
>> "licenses": [
>>
>> {
>>
>> "id": "odc-pddl",
>>
>> "name": "Open Data Commons Public Domain Dedication and Licence
>> (PDDL)",
>>
>> "url": "[21]http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/pddl/"
>>
>> [21] http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/pddl/
>>
>> }
>>
>> ],
>>
>> "description": "Classification of the Functions of Government
>> (COFOG) is a classification defined by the United Nations
>> Statistics Division. Its purpose is to \"classify the purpose
>> of transactions such as outlays on final consumption
>> expenditure, intermediate consumption, gross capital formation
>> and capital and current transfers, by general government\"
>> (from home page).",
>>
>> "keywords": [
>>
>> "Classification",
>>
>> "COFOG",
>>
>> "Finances",
>>
>> "Government",
>>
>> "United Nations"
>>
>> ]
>>
>> },
>>
>> "files": [
>>
>> {
>>
>> "path": "data/cofog.csv",
>>
>> "fields": [
>>
>> {
>>
>> "id": "Code",
>>
>> "type": "string"
>>
>> },
>>
>> {
>>
>> "id": "Description",
>>
>> "type": "string"
>>
>> },
>>
>> {
>>
>> "id": "ExplanatoryNote",
>>
>> "type": "string"
>>
>> },
>>
>> {
>>
>> "id": "Change_date",
>>
>> "type": "date"
>>
>> }
>>
>> ]
>>
>> }
>>
>> ]
>>
>> }
>>
>> rgrp: Interested to hear from the LD community in things like
>> JSON-LD
>> ... Wrapping up... you could push this to a local Web site and
>> you have a data package
>> ... Not concerned whether we adopt this kind of package or
>> something that does the same thing, but it's how to publish
>> data packages without a data catalogue
>> ... Using JSON as your base schema language
>> ... got to make something that can be used really usually
>> ... Some people have suggested we drop JSON nad just use
>> another Excel worksheet to provide the data
>> ... Every step to making it easy, brings more uses of the data
>> ... We want to reduce the fritcion to getting, using and
>> sharing data
>>
>> Tomasz: Thanks Rufus
>>
>> <rgrp> I have finished
>>
>> <rgrp> Any questions :-) ?
>>
>> <Gwyn_Sutherlin> question
>>
>> <fhenning> PhilA2: w3c is aware of process for schemas. there's
>> a workshop planned for next year on exactly the issues that
>> rufus has been addressing.
>>
>> <scribe> scribe: fhenning
>>
>> <PhilA2> Gwyn_Sutherlin: Do you do work around unstructured
>> data - text, audio, video etc?
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: Yes, we do, It's the Open Knowledge Foundation -
>> we're format agnostic
>>
>> <rgrp> open knowledge includes content, data etc
>>
>> <PhilA2> Gwyn_Sutherlin: Our cases are usually around
>> transparency and cirrpution
>>
>> <PhilA2> s/cirruption/corruption
>>
>> <rgrp> we do a lot around other topics including corruption :-)
>> eg. [22]http://okfnlabs.org/events/hackdays/lobbying.html
>>
>> [22] http://okfnlabs.org/events/hackdays/lobbying.html
>>
>> [sorry, the audio problems seem to be at our device . its'not
>> possible for me to do complete scribing at this point. could
>> you take over phil?]
>>
>> <PhilA2> DeirdreLee: Thanks Rufus for the presentation. Do you
>> see things like DCAT as added overhead? What tools do you see
>> for packahing data?
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: That's my point. The spec allows you to build
>> the tool. We have a tool called DPM
>>
>> <rgrp> [23]http://dpm.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
>>
>> [23] http://dpm.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: DCAT is in some ways format agnostic but it's an
>> LD format. For an Excel user, you can tell them in 30" how to
>> export in CSV. There's no "export in .n3" option
>>
>> <rgrp> metadata = ini file - xyz: abc
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: Maybe the metadata file should be a .ini file
>> for a simple example
>>
>> <PhilA2> rgrp: Most formats are very simple, with JSON as the
>> most complex. Need things people can produce with the tools
>> they have
>>
>> <PhilA2> Tomasz: Thanks Rufus again
>>
>> <rgrp> see python, ruby, debs, nodejs etc - all have super
>> simple package formats ..
>>
>> <rgrp> also you need a reason for people to package - you need
>> something they can then do ... (e.g. get something into
>> postgres in 30s)
>>
>> Serafin Olcoz on Openness and Reuse of Public Sector Information
>> using Open Data Publishing, Decree
>>
>> yes phil
>>
>> <PhilA2> I love this line - The public sector is an archipelago
>> of competences and budgets
>>
>> [no it drops in and out - better if you do it phil]
>>
>> <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
>>
>> Olcoz: We decided to share all our code
>> ... Slides
>> [24]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49911950/W3c%20-%20Open%20Assets.pd
>> f
>> ... Slide 2 has the key policies
>> ... Memorandum specifies the schema to use etc.
>> ... makes publication of source code etc.
>> ... If you want to develop software, you are obloged to see
>> what's already available and build on that
>> ... you need to write a report on various aspects. What you're
>> using, what you're contributing back etc. (under EUPL licence)
>> ... provide a functional description etc.
>> ... Also state what dependencies there are etc.
>> ... You are required to publish at least the dependencies as it
>> affects everyone, not just you
>> ... The aim is to have a global idea of what is being done
>> using public money to develop software
>> ... This is formalising the re-use process
>>
>> [24] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49911950/W3c%20-%20Open%20Assets.pdf
>>
>> PhilA2: The obligation applies just to people being paid by the
>> public sector and not to third party developers?
>>
>> Olcoz: Yes
>> ... Private sector can take OSS and develop new products and
>> services based on the OSS directory
>> ... They may then realise the advantage of this and can, if
>> they want, open their own source code
>> ... Which we hope will create a virtuous cycle
>> ... We're offering a robust service 24/7/365
>> ... slide 5
>> ... We are actively encouraging development.
>> ... Supporting local enterprise and investment without having
>> to spend public sector money - an unimportant feature in the
>> current climate
>> ... We'd like others to share out approach of course and would
>> welcome a European approach
>> ... In order to allow people to use your OSS, you need to have
>> a portal to make it available and to be able to access other
>> repositories
>> ... the repository itself is an asset that has value
>> ... you can learn a lot about past and present components
>> ... if somethinng is under development and you can wait for it
>> to be ready before you use it, then you know to wait, If you
>> can't wait, you know you need to go your own way.
>> ... all the records are contained in an open data catalogue
>> ... Slide 9
>> ... We're agnostic about formats. It can be data, or text or
>> code etc.
>> ... We need to be able to federate our repositories
>> ... We defined various vocabularies, including for the re-use
>> process
>> ... We have the support of CTIC and others
>> ... also of ministry of Finance and Public Administration in Spain,
> evaluating for use
>> across Spain
>>
>> <Tomasz> we will reschedule Elsa's presentation for the next
>> meeting
>>
>> Olcoz: talks about the schemas in use. Refers to RADion
>> ([25]http://www.w3.org/ns/radion) and the ISA Programme that
>> created it
>>
>> [25] http://www.w3.org/ns/radion)
>>
>> <Tomasz> but i would still like some discussion about Serafin's
>> talk
>>
>> Olcoz: Model can be used to link different sources of data from
>> the Web. Important to see repository itself as an asset -
>> needed to extend RADion I did not say this, I said that RADion is too
> specific and we had to develop an Ontology Adion from which RADion is particular
> cas that includes a instance of our Repository Asset. Considering a Repositoy as
> an Asset it allows as to have semantic federation of a distributed hierarchy of
> Repositories that RADIon or DCAT do not provide and requiere external
> programming to have such a Federation due their models work on Silos. Adion
> approach has also advantages to consider data or information coming from
> Internet of things.
>
>> ... We find problems with ADMS and DCAT. They don't cover
>> everything we need I did not say this but DCAT and ADMS do not take care
> properly of IPR of documentation attached to Data or Assets, but due to our
> abstraction for Elemental Open Assests (Data, Apps, Reports, ando so on), these
> documents are also Assets so their Distribution is able to properly deal with
> IPR issues.
>
>> ... Three new portals launching in a couple of weeks' time. All
>> source code is open for re-use
>>
>> Tomasz: Thanks very much Serafin - very interesting
>>
>> Olcoz: If you need info about the decree - I've submitted links
>> to English resources to the IG
>>
>> Tomasz: Can you give us a sense of the size of the Basque
>> government involvement?
>>
>> Olcoz: We're still working on finishing the repositories so
>> we'll have to wait a few months to be able to report on
>> experience
>>
>> Tomasz: Is design for re-use part of the requirement of the new
>> software project?
>>
>> Olcoz: Not yet. That's the plan for the future
>> ... People often saw design as being very specific to a use. In
>> the early 90s, people began to change that view. Now you see a
>> lot of re-usable software components
>> ... We need to work on the guidelines around this
> I also added that I will present by this Thursday this work to W3C SIG GLD
> and that I will submit through it the vocabulary of Open Assets based on
> Adion to W3C in order to be taken into account for future evolution of
> standards related to Open Data and Re-use of Public Sector Information
>
>
>> Tomasz: Any more questions?
>>
>> Olcoz: I'd like to say I'm making a presentation on this to the
>> GLD WG this Thursday
>> ... Wants to make a Member Submission
>>
>> Tomasz: We're at the end of our time
>> ... Apologies to Elsa for moving your presentation to our next
>> meeting next month
>> ... A reminder that we have an open call for assistance with
>> developing the group's summary of the various presentations we
>> have received concerning social media
>> ... Next few meetings will be on open data - and so will
>> welcome guests and ideas for speakers
>>
>> <Gwyn_Sutherlin> thanks
>>
>> Tomasz: Thanks to speakers and scribes
>>
>
--
Phil Archer
W3C eGovernment
http://www.w3.org/egov/
http://philarcher.org
+44 (0)7887 767755
@philarcher1
Received on Tuesday, 27 November 2012 09:35:01 UTC