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[minutes] eGov IG call, 13 May 2009

From: Jose M. Alonso <josema@w3.org>
Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:00:01 +0200
Message-Id: <F0161DA0-45B3-4420-B67F-61DBE1C8D862@w3.org>
To: eGov IG <public-egov-ig@w3.org>
Minutes available at:


and as text below.

Reminder/highlight about 2nd charter:
    kevin: can everybody commit to submit messages with ideas,
    description as specific as possible around this next week, get
    together in 2 weeks time and review that list and build consensus
    around it?

    [all agree]

-- Jose



       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference

13 May 2009

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-egov-irc


           josema, rachel, kevin, dave, john, brand, owen, oscar,
           sharron, ken

           john, kevin

           josema, rachel


      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]Scribe, agenda adjustments
          2. [5]Celebrations
          3. [6]What's going on out there?
          4. [7]Lessons learned and 2nd charter
      * [8]Summary of Action Items

  Scribe, agenda adjustments

    <John> I am on my iPhone for IRC

    <Daniel_Bennett> is Twibe official?

    <kevin> just a quick note that the twibe group EGOV is official. I
    set it up last week

    <josema> kevin: any volunteers?

    <josema> ... adjustments?

    <Daniel_Bennett> Kevin wanted to discuss the panel this summer

    <josema> scribe: josema


    [kevin thanks everybody for the work on the Note]

    [kevin refers to:

       [9] http://thedesignstate.com/national-design-policy-council-video/

    kevin: doc puts up in very good position to help governments

    john: agree, kevin also sent appreciation note to Jose's W3C
    ... I'm sure we all endorse as group

    <davemc> +! Kudos to Jose are deserved

    john: think this will be an important resource for people

    [jose thanks all and is happy to see this finally published, eager
    to discuss next steps]

    owen: also sent message to several lists

    daniel: great work, what next?

    owen: what about timbl + kevin to meet with Kundra?

    kevin: I'd be happy to do so

    [jose mentions charter extension]

What's going on out there?

    [john gives summary of EU PSI directive, COM, status]

    [on EU PSI directive:

      [10] http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/policy/psi/actions_eu/policy_actions/index_en.htm

    [john on need of transposition and deadlines]

    john: enabling people to create their own services have helped move
    the agenda in the UK

    jose: the examples in the COM caught my eye


      [11] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2009:0212:FIN:EN:PDF

    john: I'm not planning to go to SemTech at the moment

    kevin: there's opportunity to speak but no travel funding

    [open government innovations event]

    [12]listserv thread start]

      [12] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009May/0035

    daniel: opportunity to organize a panel there
    ... some volunteered, plan to organize the panel around the Note

    [personal democracy forum]

    daniel: held yearly in NYC, went last year, end of June this year
    ... hosted by TechPresident, several high profiles speakers

    kevin: do you see opportunity to participate there wrt Note?

    daniel: I can ask Micah Sifry

    john: we have a meeting tomorrow, Beth Noveck to give talk via
    videolink on OGD
    ... easy to find, easy to use, easy to reuse ?? is the title

    [kevin re-reads activity plan and asks people to let group know of
    opportunities where we could talk about Note]

Lessons learned and 2nd charter discussion

    [kevin reminds satisfaction after challenging initial period]

    josema: want to be frank but don't want to hurt anybody, you all are

    <davemc> go for it. Let's hear them

    josema: one challenge - learning w3c operating procedures, took a
    while for group to get up to speed
    ...VERY important for folks to take turns scribing
    ...difficult for me to always scribe, not a good scribe either
    ...great example of a meeting record is Karen Myers scribing the
    F2F, amazing, detailed, helpful

    dave: idea: usual way at W3C, list of scribes, if no one steps up to
    scribe, there is no meeting

    josema: one challenge as group started was that most participants
    were new to W3C
    ...new to IRC, may not have had access to IRC from work computer
    ...we'll probably need a solution in the middle

    daniel: an idea: appoint a scribe at end of one call, to scribe the
    next call
    ...if you are assigned to scribe and can't make the meeting, you are
    responsible to find a replacement

    <Rachel> if Jose scribes, his time is divided between talking &
    typing and it is hard to do both well

    <davemc> I didn't attend the f2f, but the minutes were quite useful
    in coming up to speed.

    <Rachel> so Step Up people!!!!!

    <josema> dave referred to this one:

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List

    <John> I liked Daniel's suggestion

    <John> as a step

    <davemc> +1 Daniel's suggestion

    <josema> [Daniel volunteers to scribe next meeting]

    [one barrier to scribing is not being familiar w/voices & names]

    [if you are new to the group, ask speakers to identify themselves
    before speaking]

    <John> Like Sharron did at our last meeting

    [Sharron volunteers as backup]

    [Rachel volunteers to edit docs]

    <josema> kevin: "rapid issue releases"

    <John> Exactly +1

    <josema> +1

    <davemc> +1

    <John> No more 'war and peace'

    <John> (as in the novel)

    john on [14]http://sandbox.opsi.gov.uk/]

      [14] http://sandbox.opsi.gov.uk/

    john: if you want to talk about something you need to be able to
    identify it
    ... e.g. you need to be able to point to a paragraph

    <John> You can't "mash" a PDF easily

    daniel: putting stuff up in XML allows for this sort of stuff
    ... using XPointer, etc.

    <davemc> let's discuss mashing PDF separately. Technical point of

    owen: I think that john's example is interesting to show that
    governments do not get it

    <John> +1

    owen: XML->PDF automatically is doable, opposite not true

    dave: PDF purpose is to show exact replica of doc, not to have
    pointers to this or that
    ... XML made for that, not a PDF expert but heard from them it's
    even possible with PDF

    <John> Is bad PDF like bad HTML - you can do better but people often

    kevin: respect both paths here, we want to provide as much data as

    <davemc> PDF to XPDF is available via free technology from Adobe

      [15] http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/mars/

    daniel: we should not shy away with getting into discussion about
    formats with respect

    <John> yup, the point is the URI

    dave: agree and believe there are principles that could be
    applicable to a variety of formats

    oscar: PDF is wonderful technology, but I was trying to point out in
    the doc it's difficult to get data out
    ... probably a technology that it's used in the wrong context in
    many cases, hence the issues
    ... this is something we could also work on in the future
    ... formats are of paramount importance

    daniel: sandbox stuff is wonderful
    ... having techniques for dealing with that sort of information is
    always useful

    dave: US Courts have 350Mio docs in PDFs, we should be careful not
    to break the legal tracks when structuring the data

    rachel: 99% of people dealing with content don't have a clear idea
    of what XML is for, this needs a cultural change, capability
    ...people do not easily move to do something differently

    daniel: brilliant point

    kevin: I believe those are things to potentially incorporate in 2nd
    ... better communication to ???
    ... is that something we want to build onto?

    dave: agree???

    josema: I see we're getting into 2nd charter discussions for a while
    ...discussion great but would prefer to talk more about lessons
    learned first

    <John> We just drifted - no conspiracy :)

    [jose on TFs expectations different from outcome]

    <John> my view, we worked best as one group

    oscar: agree, don't think they have worked very well, we might want
    to explore something different

    <Sharron> agree, re-org is good idea

    <davemc> sorry, my internet connection dropped

    rachel: suggest to have a pre-marketing plan for next docs

    kevin: agree

    owen: key issue is to identify and establish comms with stakeholders

    <Rachel> also identify channels where we want to distribute message
    - twitter, etc

    kevin: need to get a draft of 2nd charter in June
    ... homework assignment: should the IG focus on less topics?
    ... think about it, go through paper, identify some
    ... I feel each of major areas in paper are very timely and
    ... I'd like to preserve those categories if doable with resources
    we have

    <John> maybe we should do a 'divide the dollar' exercise to

    owen: point is who wants to work on what?
    ... I'd be more than willing to document goals and stakeholders in

    oscar: I'd need some time to think about it
    ... start thread by email

    daniel: I would be a little bit worried about trying to do many
    things at once
    ... as owen said we should question ourselves if we are meeting
    stakeholders' needs

    john: I think we need to prioritize, we cover a broad are now on
    ... we need to pick those places where we can make most impact
    ... strongest level of participation and expertise
    ... go through a conversation as a group
    ... to identify them

    <josema> +1

    kevin: I think we are all saying same thing, agree with both
    ... March F2F had great participation that allowed us to be where we
    are today
    ... reason why I'm also interested in marketing our efforts, led to
    this good position

    rachel: what are the end result we want for stage 2?

    kevin: I think we need to start solving what we can solve out of
    those issues we identified already

    <John> +1

    kevin: we have lots of questions in there, need to address them

    <josema> +1

    <John> plural - documents

    john: no way we'll solve all issues identified
    ... but if we focus well we can achieve success in small amounts
    ... going step by step

    <Sharron> must go, bye all til next time.

    kevin: I think we need to be open

    <John> so, year 2, solutions to issues, severaldocs, but agile and

    <John> Normative sounds scary...

    <josema> not that much ;)

    <scribe> ACTION: josema to send message to list about different
    publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [recorded in

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Send message to list about different
    publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [on Josť Manuel Alonso - due

    owen: +1 to produce smaller docs and reference better existing ones

    kevin: can everybody commit to submit messages with ideas,
    description as specific as possible around this next week, get
    together in 2 weeks time and review that list and build consensus
    around it?

    [all agree]

    [kevin to touch base with Karen get back to group on marketing plan]


Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: josema to send message to list about different
    publishing options rec/BPS/etc. [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

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Received on Thursday, 14 May 2009 10:00:51 UTC

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