[Minutes] Editing WG - 2025-12-11

08:02 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/492
08:04 *** Ashish (~Ashish@2dbf1d10.publics.cloak) has joined the channel 
08:05 <whsieh> more of a request to make command+B/I/U toggle B/I/U in Safari
08:06 <whsieh> seems inconsistent with iOS and other apps on macOS, but the "not dispatching events" part is consistent with not bolding
08:06 *** Shweta (~Shweta@2dbf1d10.publics.cloak) has joined the channel 
08:06 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/494
08:06 <ragoulik> if not cm+b there may be another way to trigger bold - and should execcommand trigger the same event?
08:06 <whsieh> yes, right click > Fonts > Bold
08:07 <whsieh> 494 — seems like a bug. probably should be insertReplacementText
08:07 <ragoulik> this is more of question rather than suggestion: if we are sending event when we do right click > Fonts > Bold should we do the same when bold is performed via execcommand?
08:07 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/496
08:08 <whsieh> > this is more of question rather than suggestion: if we are sending event when we do right click > Fonts > Bold should we do the same when bold is performed via execcommand?
08:08 <whsieh> we do, yes
08:12 <whsieh> (and https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/497)
08:12 <whsieh> need to file bugs
08:15 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/499
08:15 <whsieh> seems like an editing/painting bug
08:15 <whsieh> Michael: maybe this behavior can be specced in new caret movement spec?
08:17 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/516
08:24 <whsieh> johanneswilm: Michael will upload a video. we'll keep the Agenda+ and see if we have an idea for a cleaner solution 
08:24 <whsieh> Michael: ideally — would want to anchor to the selection
08:24 <whsieh> (similar to how you want to anchor to a DOM node)
08:25 <whsieh> johanneswilm: might take a while to develop exactly what CSS anchor positioning relative to selection would look like. seems interesting to pursue
08:25 <whsieh> johanneswilm: let's see if opacity: 0 is a viable workaround 
08:26 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/505
08:30 <whsieh> need explicit repro steps
08:31 <whsieh> (seems worth aligning Safari to FF/Chrome)
08:31 <whsieh> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/504
08:32 <whsieh> undo/redo are in the section of commands that should not trigger beforeinput…
08:32 <ragoulik> https://www.w3.org/TR/input-events-2/#event-type-beforeinput - there is a mention about what needs to happen for before input here
08:32 <whsieh> unclear why this is the case
08:34 <whsieh> Ashish: long-standing behavior of not firing beforeinput event when handling execCommand-triggered commands
08:34 <whsieh> (in Chrome)
08:35 <whsieh> johanneswilm: isn't execCommand used to test input events?
08:37 <whsieh> Rakesh: "UA should not dispatch these events unless user-triggered"
08:38 <whsieh> johanneswilm: either the browser behavior should adjust to the execCommand spec or the spec needs to reflect what most browser engines do today
08:40 <whsieh> Rohan: intent of beforeinput is to give web authors a signal of user intent. but if they're the ones triggering it why do we need to send the event?
08:41 <whsieh> johanneswilm: LLMs might be interesting to consider — should asynchronously inserted text be treated as "user input"?
08:42 <whsieh> johanneswilm: need to be able to distinguish between human-generated text and system-generated text
08:42 <whsieh> johanneswilm: insertReplacementText vs. insertText kind of solves this
08:43 <whsieh> Michael: a button that the user clicks to trigger undo is, functionally, input triggered by the user
08:44 <whsieh> Michael: this issue came out of the other workaround to reset the DOM when undoing
08:45 <whsieh> Rakesh: if we do have use cases that are blocked for web developers due to not firing these events, let's note that
08:46 <whsieh> q+
08:46 <whsieh> johanneswilm: if it turns out execCommand gives a different result it probably is not a good test strat
08:48 <whsieh> 1. Can we add to interop?
08:48 <whsieh> Rakesh: there are interop-related points of contact on our team, I can relay
08:49 <whsieh> 2. Maybe we can consider adding a version of `execCommand` that triggers editing commands in a way that simulates user input
08:49 <whsieh> (WebKit's test runner has these primitives)
08:50 <whsieh> Ashish: update regarding proposal for clipboard reading MIME types — decided to add telemetry to Chrome to check for cases where clipboard changes between getting items and reading
08:51 <whsieh> Ashish: we observed cases where this happened in the wild
08:51 <whsieh> Ashish: we'll have more data in January