Re: F2F meeting of the Editign Taskforce

Ok, interesting. I found the description of formal voting procedures here:
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies#Votes


I don't think any of us really want to do a lot of votes, but the work
hitherto also showed that several major decisions simply won't be resolved
by consensus, because there are several different opinions, and everyone is
really sure about their own view and won't budge. In the meantime, the
existing contenteditable is celebrating something like its 10th anniversary
without properly functioning and without being spec'ed.

So if we could spend the time between now and the F2F to discuss online and
determine all the issues that we need to make a decision on that not
everyone agrees with initially, and then we can have a final discussion F2F
and if also that leads to no consensus among those present, we will need to
take a vote. We can then allow for that vote to also include TF
participants who are only accessible over email, etc. .

It would be really good that every time one has an idea counter to what the
current drafts say that cannot be resolved quickly through discussions in
the github issue tracker, that one makes the changes in a forked version
and creates a PR. That way we can relatively clearly determine what the
offered alternatives are and hopefully come up with one or several
specifications that can go through the lowest stages of the W3C approval
process relatively quickly after the F2F meeting.

On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
wrote:

>  >@Paul: Who gets to take part in the votes of the HTML WG? Only the
> members of the working group or also other people on the email list?
>
>
>
> The HTML WG has a very large set of members that includes both
> representatives of W3C member companies and MANY invited experts.    When
> the HTML WG Chairs ask for consensus on a matter we send an email to the
> ENTIRE WG membership and accept input from everyone.    We try to avoid
> doing "votes" and if a matter must come down to a vote we do an online
> survey to give everyone an opportunity to respond.  For example see [1].
>
>
>
> /paulc
>
>
>
> [1]
> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/polyglot-status-preference-poll/results
>
>
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
>
> *From:* johanneswilm@gmail.com [mailto:johanneswilm@gmail.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Johannes Wilm
> *Sent:* Monday, May 25, 2015 4:44 PM
> *To:* Paul Cotton
> *Cc:* Olivier Forget; Frederico Knabben; public-editing-tf@w3.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: F2F meeting of the Editign Taskforce
>
>
>
> We can also do that, if that's what people are most comfortable with.
>
>
>
> The important part is that we have some kind of process in place also for
> things that do not reach a consensus among all participants of this task
> force, as otherwise we risk not moving forward at all.
>
>
>
> @Paul: Who gets to take part in the votes of the HTML WG? Only the members
> of the working group or also other people on the email list?
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:35 PM, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> The HTML WG has ALWAYS had a culture of making NO final decisions at F2F
> meetings.  The results are always conveyed to the entire WG and then any
> controversial items are highlighted for asynchronous confirmation via email.
>
>
>
> /paulc
>
>
>
> Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>
> 17 Eleanor Drive, Ottawa, Ontario K2E 6A3
>
> Tel: (425) 705-9596 Fax: (425) 936-7329
>
>
>
> *From:* johanneswilm@gmail.com [mailto:johanneswilm@gmail.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Johannes Wilm
> *Sent:* Monday, May 25, 2015 4:34 PM
> *To:* Olivier Forget
> *Cc:* Frederico Knabben; public-editing-tf@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: F2F meeting of the Editign Taskforce
>
>
>
> We will need to follow standard W3C procedures for this. I am certainly no
> expert in what they are, but I am sure we can find out. As far as what I
> could tell from the CSSWG, votes were also accepted from working group
> members who were calling in by phone.
>
> Besides that, I would assume that the status of this task force is mostly
> like a committee in the US Congress or the European Parliament, and that
> whatever we come up with needs to go through the entire decision making
> process of one or several of the associated Working Groups anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Olivier Forget <teleclimber@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm interested in theory but getting to Europe to attend may not be
> possible unfortunately.
>
>
>
> I have one concern about this F2F though. There is talk of voting on
> decisions taking place there[1]. I'm not sure that's really fair. No matter
> where the meeting is some people won't be able to attend due to money or
> time constraints. To leave them out of the final say after all the time
> they spent participating online is not right.
>
>
>
> [1] https://github.com/w3c/editing-explainer/issues/50
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 4:34 AM Frederico Knabben <f.knabben@cksource.com>
> wrote:
>
> A F2F meeting is more than welcome at this stage Johannes, especially with
> the goal of organizing a TODO list and take some final decisions, taking in
> consideration the recent talks. I think that this TF is already at the
> point of finalizing at least the cE=Typing specs.
>
>
>
> Please let me offer Warsaw, Poland as the host city for it. I would be
> happy to organise it. If this works well for others, please let me know
> what is the official procedure to make it happen.
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> --
>
> Frederico Knabben
>
> CKEditor Project Lead and CKSource Owner
>
> --
> CKSource - http://cksource.com
> --
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>
>
>
> On Sunday 24 May 2015 at 05:53, Johannes Wilm wrote:
>
>   Hey,
>
> there has been some talk about a possible F2F meeting of the Editing
> Taskforce, and I have started by setting up a Wiki [1] and added some
> agenda items. It would be great if other members of this task force could
> indicate whether they would be interested in such a meeting. I would
> suggest Europe as the best place to hold such a meeting, as that's where
> most of us seem to be,
>
>
>
> [1] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Fall_2015_Editing_Taskforce_F2F_meeting
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Johannes Wilm
>
> Fidus Writer
>
> http://www.fiduswriter.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Johannes Wilm
>
> Fidus Writer
>
> http://www.fiduswriter.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Johannes Wilm
>
> Fidus Writer
>
> http://www.fiduswriter.org
>



-- 
Johannes Wilm
Fidus Writer
http://www.fiduswriter.org