Re: locale parameters suggestions

Hi Antoine,

Thanks for your message! Yes, I agree with you that it is really important o
keep things as unambiguous as possible. In this case, let's not talk about
locale-neutral representations together with Data Formats.

However, I am still not convinced that it is a good plan to mention
locale-neutral
representations as part of BP3. I am afraid that it's gonna complicate the
test of the BP. The same test will cover two different and independent
aspects (locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral representations).

Cheers,
Bernadette

2016-08-18 14:02 GMT+02:00 Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>:

> Hi Bernadette,
>
> Sorry I'm so late answering.
> I agree the sentence you mention could be interpreted in a wide meaning,
> but I think it's always preferable to keep things as unambiguous as
> possible... The rest of the section does address formats in a specific
> sense, and I think it would be a pity to blur the picture.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Antoine
>
> On 12/08/16 15:37, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote:
>
>> Thanks Antoine! I'm sorry, but I'm affraid that I didn't understand your
>> comment.
>>
>> I agree that the formats are not the same, but the section starts like
>> this: "The format in which data is made available to consumers is a key
>> aspect of making that data usable." I think this is quite general, no?
>> That's why I thought of talking about local-neutral representations here.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Berna
>>
>> 2016-08-12 15:17 GMT+02:00 Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl <mailto:
>> aisaac@few.vu.nl>>:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     Just reacting to the suggestion on adding locale-neutral formats in
>> the introduction of Section 8.8 Data formats [3].
>>     I think this wouldn't be appropriate. This section doesn't refer to
>> the same 'formats' I think.
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Antoine
>>
>>     On 10/08/16 19:18, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote:
>>
>>         Hi Annette,
>>
>>         Yes, I agree that its gonna be complicated to add a new BP. But,
>> I checked the data formats BP and I'm not sure if we can fit the
>> locale-neutral formats ideas into the existing ones [1] and [2]. What do
>> you think? Do you see a data format BP that is suitable for this?
>>
>>         Another option would be to include a paragraph about
>> locale-neutral formats in the introduction of Section 8.8 Data formats [3].
>>
>>         Thanks!
>>         Bernadette
>>
>>         [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#MachineReadableStandardizedFormat
>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#MachineReadableStandardizedFormat>
>>         [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#MultipleFormats <
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#MultipleFormats>
>>         [3] https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataFormats <
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataFormats>
>>
>>         2016-08-10 18:51 GMT+02:00 Annette Greiner <amgreiner@lbl.gov
>> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov <mailto:
>> amgreiner@lbl.gov>>>:
>>
>>              I agree that it really ought to be its own new best
>> practice, but it seems that we are past the point where we can add new
>> ones. If we can, I would support adding a new one in the formats section.
>> If we need to fit it into an existing BP, and you think it could work in
>> with an existing formats BP, maybe you could give it a try and see how well
>> you like it? It seems reasonable to me.
>>
>>              -Annette
>>
>>
>>              On 8/10/16 8:48 AM, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote:
>>
>>                  Hi Annette,
>>
>>                  Thanks for your answer! Please see more comments below.
>>
>>                  2016-08-10 0:01 GMT+02:00 Annette Greiner <
>> amgreiner@lbl.gov <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov
>> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov>>>:
>>
>>                      Hi Berna,
>>
>>                      Good questions!
>>
>>                      I think metadata about locale parameters is
>> something different from locale-neutral representations. We could add a
>> comma between them (after the closing parenthesis) to make that more clear.
>> Or we could change "metadata about locale parameters" to "locale parameter
>> metadata".
>>
>>                  I agree!  and I like the last proposal: use locale
>> parameter metadata.
>>
>>                      I think the publisher has to do two different
>> things, because the two are different. They have to check the metadata and
>> see that locale parameters are there, and they also have to look at the
>> data itself to see that locale-sensitive fields are represented in a
>> locale-neutral format. Does that make sense?
>>
>>                  Yes, it makes sense for me and I agree with you.
>> However, I'm not convinced that BP 3 is the place to talk about
>> locale-neutral formats. IMO BP3 should be about metadata rather than data.
>> I think talking about locale-neutral formats in BP3 may be confusing.
>> Besides the test involves checking the data rather than the metadata.
>>
>>                  Maybe, locale-neutral formats should be discussed at
>> Section 8.8 Data Formats [1]. In this case, maybe we should add a new BP
>> "Internationalize your data using locale-neutral formats". I don't like the
>> idea of creating a new BP, but I'm afraid that this is a better solution.
>> What do you think about this?
>>
>>                  Thanks again!
>>                  Berna
>>
>>                  [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataFormats <
>> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataFormats> <https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#d
>> ataFormats <https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataFormats>>
>>
>>                      -Annette
>>
>>
>>                      On 8/9/16 8:58 AM, Bernadette Farias Lóscio wrote:
>>
>>                          Hi Annette,
>>
>>                          Thanks a lot for your suggestion! I'd like to
>> make just few questions:
>>
>>                          1. When you say "Internationalize your data with
>> metadata about locale parameters (date, time and number formats, language)
>> and locale-neutral representations." it means that metadata are about
>> locale parameters and locale-neutral representations? I understand that
>> metadata is just about locale parameters. Is that correct? Could we say:
>> "and use locale-neutral data representations."?
>>
>>                          2. In the 'How to test section' of BP3 [1] we
>> have three tests: the first two ones concern the use of locale parameters
>> metadata and the third one is about the use of locale-neutral
>> representations. My question is: the publisher have to do both things, i.e.
>> to give metadata about locale parameters and use local-neutral
>> representations, at the same time?
>>
>>                          cheers,
>>                          Berna
>>
>>                          [1] http://agreiner.github.io/dwbp
>> /bp.html#LocaleParametersMetadata <http://agreiner.github.io/dwb
>> p/bp.html#LocaleParametersMetadata> <http://agreiner.github.io/dwb
>> p/bp.html#LocaleParametersMetadata <http://agreiner.github.io/dwb
>> p/bp.html#LocaleParametersMetadata>>
>>
>>                          2016-08-06 1:28 GMT+02:00 Annette Greiner <
>> amgreiner@lbl.gov <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov
>> <mailto:amgreiner@lbl.gov>>>:
>>
>>                              Hi folks,
>>
>>                              Here is a suggestion of the text for BP 3,
>> if we were to try and add in the information about locale-neutral formats.
>> Besides changing the title and subtitle, I changed the very beginning of
>> the Why paragraph to use the word "information" instead of "parameters". I
>> removed the phrase suggesting that people use CLDR to localize data, as
>> that goes against the idea of being locale neutral. I added a new paragraph
>> just before EXAMPLE 3. I also added a locale-neutral bit to the example and
>> a test for locale neutrality. This version also has the commit for the
>> language tags.
>>
>>                              You can see the result at
>>
>>                 http://agreiner.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata <
>> http://agreiner.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata> <
>> http://agreiner.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata <
>> http://agreiner.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#metadata>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                              --
>>                              Annette Greiner
>>                              NERSC Data and Analytics Services
>>                              Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                          --
>>                          Bernadette Farias Lóscio
>>                          Centro de Informática
>>                          Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil
>>                          -----------------------------
>> -----------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>                      --
>>                      Annette Greiner
>>                      NERSC Data and Analytics Services
>>                      Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                  --
>>                  Bernadette Farias Lóscio
>>                  Centro de Informática
>>                  Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil
>>                  -----------------------------
>> -----------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>              --
>>              Annette Greiner
>>              NERSC Data and Analytics Services
>>              Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         --
>>         Bernadette Farias Lóscio
>>         Centro de Informática
>>         Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil
>>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bernadette Farias Lóscio
>> Centro de Informática
>> Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------------
>>
>


-- 
Bernadette Farias Lóscio
Centro de Informática
Universidade Federal de Pernambuco - UFPE, Brazil
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Received on Thursday, 18 August 2016 21:10:48 UTC