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Re: "Responsive Ebook Design"

From: Liza Daly <liza@safaribooksonline.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:59:41 -0700
Message-ID: <CAF1pCNh57P+MESzCG+DeDKGZOd76nCRaZnXOSMYTD-ipB+L-Zg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bill McCoy <whmccoy@gmail.com>
Cc: Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, Shinyu Murakami (村上真雄) <murakami@vivliostyle.com>, W3C Digital Publishing Discussion list <public-digipub@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Though it's out of date and the slides themselves aren't really wordy
enough to stand on their own, I talked about a mapping between multiple
renditions and HTTP content negotiation in this presentation:
http://www.slideshare.net/lizadaly/streaming-digital-books-idpf-digital-book-2012-presentation

The idea was that a packaged EPUB could be a large, rich "manuscript", and
the work of downscaling, swapping formats, or choosing between translations
could be done at request time. I don't know if anything like this has ever
been implemented in practice, though, so I wouldn't consider multiple
renditions particularly relevant for the OWP.

Liza


On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Bill McCoy <whmccoy@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> +1 to Ivan's last comment. IDPF considers EPUB to be the portable document
> profile of the Open Web Platform, and thus not something disjoint from OWP.
> But on this list I take a reference to making a feature in EPUB "available
> in OWP" not as a slight to EPUB but as shorthand for "making that feature
> available for websites and Web-technology-based apps as well as in EPUB
> publications".
>
> But to Ivan's original comments, it may be that for online websites and
> apps, media queries and HTTP content negotiation along with responsive
> design techniques are already sufficient to support the scenarios that
> multiple renditions facilitates for EPUB.The basic assumption of a packaged
> portable document is that there is no server agent turning requests for
> resources into representations on the fly (per the REST architecture of the
> online Web), i.e. resource=representation. Multiple renditions gets past
> this constraint at the publication level by enabling creators to deliver
> together, and users to swap between, a high quality fixed layout
> representation and a highly accessible reflowable representation, or
> portrait and landscape representations,  but for a website it's possible
> and commonplace to do that kind of thing via server intelligence. For
> Web-technology-based apps (*), it would be more common to do address this
> at a panel/scene level via responsive design not by having multiple
> separate versions together (which is a pretty blunt instrument and which I
> see also being less important down the road as we get better with
> responsive design... template based pagination being another, IMO better,
> way to skin this cat).
>
> --Bill
>
> (*) is there a better name for this? "Web Apps" to me is ambiguous because
> it also encompasses websites with some active server processing, and I
> don't see Chrome Apps and Expedia.com as being the same kind of animal.
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> Leonard,
>>
>> this is all true. However, the current solution for multiple rendition is
>> closely tied to EPUB and I was just wondering whether the same notions (and
>> solutions) would have their place as part of a more general solution, e.g.,
>> CSS or similar.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:20 , Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ivan - the OWP is not tied to the W3C.  There are MANY technologies that
>> > are standardized by other organizations that are part of the OWP.  Just
>> > looking at the OWP wiki at the W3C
>> > (<http://www.w3.org/wiki/Open_Web_Platform>), I see three - ECMAScript
>> > (ECMA), HTTP (IETF) and URI (IETF).
>> >
>> > And then there are various other standards referenced from the HTML or
>> SVG
>> > specifications that come from elsewhere such as ICC Profiles, OpenType
>> and
>> > JPEG which are all ISO standards.
>> >
>> > To quote the first line of that wiki:
>> > The Open Web Platform is the collection of open (royalty-free)
>> > technologies which enables the Web. Using the Open Web Platform,
>> everyone
>> > has the right to implement a software component of the Web without
>> > requiring any approvals or waiving license fees.
>> >
>> > Doesn’t matter where they come from as long as they meet that goal.
>> >
>> >
>> > Leonard
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1/15/15, 9:30 AM, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> (+cc to the IG list)
>> >>
>> >> Thanks Shinyu!
>> >>
>> >> I am not familiar with the details of the EPUB multiple rendition spec,
>> >> but it does raise a question: isn't this something that should be
>> >> available in the OWP? Isn't this a requirement this group should
>> describe
>> >> to the the XXX WG? (I am not sure what 'XXX' is.)
>> >>
>> >> Ivan
>> >>
>> >>> On 12 Jan 2015, at 16:45 , Shinyu Murakami <murakami@vivliostyle.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi DigiPub people,
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd like to introduce an interesting article:
>> >>>
>> >>> Responsive Ebook Design: A Primer
>> >>> by Sanders Kleinfeld (O'Reilly Media)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://medium.com/@sandersk/responsive-ebook-design-a-primer-8bba0132821
>> >>> 9
>> >>>
>> >>> I deeply agree to the author that we need open-standard, responsive
>> >>> alternatives to fixed layout.
>> >>> I am happy I can contribute to this area through the Vivliostyle (open
>> >>> source, web browser based CSS typesetting) project, that is mentioned
>> in
>> >>> this article.
>> >>>
>> >>> Vivliostyle Project
>> >>> https://github.com/vivliostyle/vivliostyle
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Shinyu Murakami (村上 真雄)
>> >>> CEO & Founder, Vivliostyle Inc.
>> >>> http://vivliostyle.com
>> >>> murakami@vivliostyle.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----
>> >> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> >> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>> >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> >> mobile: +31-641044153
>> >> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Digital Publishing Activity Lead
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +31-641044153
>> ORCID ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0782-2704
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Saturday, 17 January 2015 23:00:29 UTC

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