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Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF wiki

From: Nick Ruffilo <nickruffilo@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 14:25:49 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+Dds5_oLcgMmQChjQy+HezmJw4-WR5cL7WcVETdQFv6Z4y7ag@mail.gmail.com>
To: Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@bell.net>
Cc: Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>, Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com>, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>, "Stein, Ayla" <astein@illinois.edu>, Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org>, W3C Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
Isn't the <a> supposed to be an anchor and not a link?  And <a> with a
href="" is clearly a link, but otherwise, couldn't an anchor point be a
logical generic grouping point.

In the early days of web development, that is exactly how I utilized it:

<a href="#gohere">Go there</a>


<a id="gohere" name="gohere"/>
<h1>This is where I want to be</h1>


There is probably a better way to do this, but I would argue that <a> -
unless it has been re-defined to mean link and not anchor (which is
extremely possible, I've still to read MUCH of the w3c docs) it would fit.

-Nick



On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Matt Garrish <matt.garrish@bell.net> wrote:

>   A few points:
>
>    - epub uses the epub:type value “pagebreak” to identify the elements
>    (the id name isn’t the indicator)
>    - epub also requires @title for a human-readable value (for
>    announcement by AT)
>    - the use of <a> for pagebreaks isn’t ideal. A page break not a link
>    to anywhere and never will be. A span is more typical.
>
> I’d also hate to think we need more markers in digital. CFIs, while
> unwieldy to write, at least go in the right direction in getting away from
> reliance on the presence of IDs + empty elements. They can also represent
> ranges better than having to insert two markers, or whatever ugliness that
> takes.
>
> ID-based markers are useful in the print/digital lookup scenario noted,
> and they’ll have life until a better/simpler method of identifying
> locations comes along, but they’re still god-awful things.
>
> You’d think in a digital world we could pull out/identify/highlight any
> passage of text we want, not be as functionally useless to readers as page
> numbers. But here we are...
>
> Matt
>
>  *From:* Bill Kasdorf <bkasdorf@apexcovantage.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 1:32 PM
> *To:* Nick Ruffilo <nickruffilo@gmail.com> ; Dave Cramer
> <dauwhe@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr> ; Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
> ; Stein, Ayla <astein@illinois.edu> ; Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> ; W3C
> Digital Publishing IG <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF
> wiki
>
>
> Precisely! Thanks.
>
>
>
> When people respond by saying, wrt pointing just to the start of the print
> page on which the thing you really mean occurs (the thing the index entry
> means, the thing the cross reference is referencing, etc.), "what the heck
> good is that?", I point out that that is precisely all that those things
> have ever done in print. J They just say "somewhere between this point,
> where page 53 begins, and the next such milestone marker, which says where
> page 54 begins . . . somewhere between those two markers is the thing I'm
> trying to direct your attention to." So using them is regrettably no
> better, but at least no worse, than what they've always done.
>
>
>
> --Bill K
>
>
>
> *From:* Nick Ruffilo [mailto:nickruffilo@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 08, 2015 1:25 PM
> *To:* Dave Cramer
> *Cc:* AUDRAIN LUC; Ivan Herman; Bill Kasdorf; Stein, Ayla; Thierry
> Michel; W3C Digital Publishing IG
> *Subject:* Re: [dpub identifiers] Please review updated Identifiers TF
> wiki
>
>
>
> My apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a generic
> "milestone" type ID?  Ultimately that's what a page-number is.  The same
> way a section heading, or chapter is a chunk identifier, a page is ALSO a
> chunk identifier.  The fact that the context is related to a concept
> foreign to screens (or at least, difficult to understand when it comes to
> screens) if you think of it as a "physical_page_number" as opposed to just
> "page_number" the conceptual chunk because significantly clearer and more
> meaningful.
>
>
>
> If this doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll try to word it elsewise.
>
>
>
> -Nick
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Dave Cramer <dauwhe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 12:41 PM, AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
> wrote:
>
>
> In EPUB3 files, HTML content is tagged with empty anchors like :
> "Ils n¹en veulent pas, ils n¹en <a id="page_182"/>veulent pas, elle lâche
> dans un soupir en attrapant encore une lettre."
>
> This means that a new paper page starts at word « veulent ».
>
> In parallel, the EPUB3 nav document contains an ordered list of navigation
> points in a <nav epub:type="page-list »> element :
> <li>
>    <a href="chap22.html#page_182">Page 182</a>
>                </li>
> Then the label of this paper page 182 is « Page 182 ».
>
>
> In term of worflow, by good practice, we produced a new EPUB file as soon
> as text corrections have been inserted in the reprint book.
>
>
>
>
>
> In EPUB3, there's metadata that should indicate which print edition the
> pagination information is taken from [1]:
>
>
>
> <dc:source id="src-id">urn:isbn:9780375704024</dc:source>
>
>     <meta refines="#src-id" property="identifier-type" scheme="onix:codelist5">15</meta>
>
>  <meta refines="#src-id" property="source-of">pagination</meta>
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.idpf.org/epub/301/spec/epub-publications.html#sec-opf-dcsource
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> - Nick Ruffilo
>
> @NickRuffilo
>
> http://Aerbook.com
>
> http://ZenOfTechnology.com <http://zenoftechnology.com/>
>
>
>



-- 
- Nick Ruffilo
@NickRuffilo
http://Aerbook.com
http://ZenOfTechnology.com <http://zenoftechnology.com/>
Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2015 18:26:18 UTC

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